Okay here we go…
As I said we will progress from very simple so bear with it if you are experienced, as there are many who are not. We all need a clear definition before we can proceed.
Three part question.
Define the following:
Structure, Migration Route, Scatter point and how they relate to each other.
ex: A migration route is the path that fish use based on ….
A scatter point is the approximate position where the fish begin to…
then tie them all together as to how they inter-relate.
For the follow up post you may quote and add information or you may post your own interpretation of the answer. The idea is that through discussion we reached a mutually agreed upon definition and description that will serve as the basis for the next discussions and the go to definition when there is any uncertainty. That way we will build a catalog of references and continue to evolve the discussion.
Kevin
Hi all, I see structure as any change in lake makeup or bottom line. Examples, A log on the bottom, An isolated weed clump or protruding Point. Old car(Elk Lake) Rock pile ,reef etc. Migration route. I see these as paths taken by all fish from post spawn until next spawn. Fish spawn then for a year they travel routes depending on water temps, forage and other variables then return to the same or similar waters and spawn again or in the case of salmon they die after spawning. Scatter point. I see this as the area where fish disperse after the spawn. For example with Pike it is smaller Dark bottom bays where the waters warm faster and forage is present. With Muskies I find them to roam open water after the spawn dispersing back into the shorelines as water temps warm into the 60,s. But in short I see a scatter point as a place where post spawn fish gather for a short time prior to heading into summer ranges. To tie it all together Structural elements that are located along migration routes and scatter points are key to locating various species of fish. Knowing where a Muskies prey fish will be goes a long way to finding where the Musky will be.A Classic set up would be a river mouth with rock piles during a sucker spawning run. Muskies will set up in ambush along rocky points or weed edges to intercept the suckers as they pass in route to the spawn. The classic Cisco spawn in October where Muskies stage 10 to 15 feet of water waiting for the Ciscos to move shallow to spawn. The White fish spawn in December along Muskegons Piers also would be a classic if there were any Muskies to stage there. Ive been basic but I feel my understanding of these elements is pretty good. Kingfisher
Scatter Point: a spot along the migration route that disperse fish from where they are traveling to, for example the first or second break or even a weed line depending on the makeup of each. It is from there that they travel to structure, even though these areas may at times be considered structure themselves.
My Interpretation of the book:
Structure: Any feature of the bottom of the lake that makes it different from the surrounding area.
Migration Route: A series of points of structure that the fish use as guideposts when moving from deeper to shallow water and back. (My interpretation of what Buck Perry wrote was that he used this term to describe the daily movement of fish rather than seasonal migrations.)
Scatter Point: The depth of water where groups of fish begin to disperse as they move along a migration route. The end of the route.
I can see that Buck looked at this as a day by day thing meaning how much do they move in 12 to 24 hours. When I think of Migration I see caribou traveling across the entire north country or Salmon from the creek to the ocean and back. I think My deffinition of structure was correct. I will redefine my river mouth structure. Spring arrives and Suckers begin to stage off the mouth of the river preparing to run up said river to spawn. Muskies arrive at this time or just prior and stage in ambush points along the suckers travel route. They will use" daily" migration routes such as along points and weed lines moving back and forth from deep to shallow water. I stress though that the location of the Suckers will be the variable that locates where the Muskies will hold in ambush. Current breaks are a great place to start looking for Muskies that are waiting in Ambush. Suckers hold in pools and breaks behind bolders and other (Structural elements), logs and such. Kingfisher
"Heavyhound" said:
I think you've managed to catch a few fish without it. 🙂
💡 If he had read the book it might have only taken half the hours to catch the number of fish they caught last year.
The book…
The purpose of this thread is to get a working definition of Structure, Scatter Point and Migration Route for later discussion. Buck was always very specific with definitions so there was never any confusion what he was talking about. For instance, cover and structure are not the same thing. A patch of milfoil is not structure, it is cover and the terms are not interchngeable.
We are getting there 🙂 it will take some time to get used to the structure (pun intended) of this forum. It is meant to be very specific and apply the terminology from the book as it was used by BP.
Also- If you plan on being part of this discussion and have not chimed in yet, please do. You can simply agree with something posted or just say that you are in. The reason being is we want to know how many people are interested in this discussion.
Kevin
"kid coulson" said:
The kid is here.What if we have questions along the way?Just spit them out?I havent read the whole book yet so I dont want to jump into something that we will cover at a later time.
From Cyberlunge's post describing this forum…
If you have additional questions generated by the discussion send them to me and I will post them in an orderly manner, What I dont want is to get fourteen discussions going at once. For those who have read the book several times or are ahead of the group try not to use information from later chapters, this confuses the discussion and makes it difficult for people to follow along.
This way he can let the person know if the topic will be covered later or if "now" is a good time to clarify.
Can we all agree on these definitions? (borrowed from another site)
If so then we could move forward in the discussion while using these for reference.
Definitions
Breaks – Objects found on the lake bottom.
Breakline – An imaginary line on the lake bottom created from a sudden increase or decrease in depth; An abrupt contrast in the underwater conditions ( i.e.: weedline, thermocline, shadeline, water color change, etc.)
Channel – The submerged riverbed; A type of structure used by fish during migration.
Contact Point – The point at which the fish make first contact with the structure when they start their migration.
Deep Water – 30 ft. deep or deeper; the deepest water in the immediate area, usually the channel; the home of the fish.
Drop Off – A breakline or structure where there is a sudden drop into the deepest water.
Feeder Creek – A submerged gulch, creek, or wash that feeds into the main channel; Structure that fish use during their migration from deep water to shallow water.
Flat – An area of the lake bottom that contains no structure.
Food Source – An area of the lake that contains food for the fish; Usually an area having either an inlet with running water, a weed flat, rock reef, or a rip-rap, manmade structure.
Hump – An underwater island; A structure in which the lake bottom rises up from the surrounding area.
Migration – A movement of the fish from deep water to shallow water along certain underwater paths.
Migration Route – The actual structure or breakline the fish use during their migration from deep water to the shallows.
Point Bar – A type of underwater structure in which the shallow water protrudes out into the lake more than the surrounding area.
Ridge – A type of structure where a long narrow hump exists along the sides of a channel or feeder creek; A levee.
Rip-Rap – Large rocks placed by man along the sides of dams and roadways to prevent erosion.
Rock Reef – A type of structure in which the bottom is covered by rock and rubble; A potential food source if found shallow.
Saddle – A type of structure which is formed from two inside bends facing opposite directions.
Sanctuary – An area in deep water where the fish are in a neutral or inactive state; The home of the fish.
Shallow Water – Water with a depth of 10 feet or less.
Shallows – An area containing shallow water.
Steep Deep – An area void of structure, which contains very little shallow water due to steep shoreline, drop off conditions.
Structure – A lake bottom feature that is distinctly different from the surrounding area.
Thermocline – a horizontal plane of rapidly changing water temperature.
Weedline (upper) – A line created from the contrast of weed growing to the waters' surface and weed which isn't growing to the surface.
Weedline (lower) – A line created on the lake bottom where the weed stops growing due to depths too great for the weed to grow.
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