Is it me or am I seeing a lot more guides catching more and bigger fish than their clients. I'm referring to clients actually in the boat fishing with the guide. I've fished with only a few guides including Tony Grant and Marc Thorpe who never even picked up a rod or asked to pick up a rod. They were solely focused on putting us on fish, casting, speed, boat control etc… I fished with a guide who asked if they can fish which I didn't mind and allowed without even blinking an eye. The guide would put rod down, focus on instructing us where to cast and would make sure the "structure, spot or area that was known as a good spot was fished out by us before he'd pick his rod up again". I was impressed at the amount of attention given and desire to have us the clients boat a fish. Lately I've noticed a lot of the "newer or younger" guides seem to consistently boat trophy fish while clients are in the boat. I don't know how I would feel if I was spending "x" amount of dollars, travel and time away from family to fish trophy water away from home and see my guide fishing just as hard as i am, chasing the same goal. Maybe it's luck but I'm constantly seeing giant fish boated by the guide rather than the client. It would make me wonder if the guide wants me along to split cost and chase fish. I get it… On some cases I'm okay with it as its always good to see a fish in the boat or a guides not really targeting anything specific or trying new non traditional baits for that lake/system but to see guides boating slobs after slobs and very few client big fish pics has me questioning their dedication to putting their clients on a trophy fish. I know if I was a guide and had someone come to me wanting a fish or trophy fish, pay me with the goal to catch a trophy I would feel horrible if I was out targeting the big fish spots I know and boated a monster. I just dont think I could fish knowing my job was to put my client on a fish. Seems a lot if big fish being caught by the guide with the client in the boat??? Am I off?
The one guide I have fished with, if he hooked a fish he handed the rod over right away, so it was "my" fish. It was also just me in the boat, and every lure you add in the water at one time increases your chances exponentially, so having more casters is a great thing to do, especially if its just one client. We actually lost the first fish of the day because I was grabbing the net, and he was handing me the rod! I really didn't care, but did appreciate it. I can see it being an issue if they just target monsters and fish for themselves, completely unprofessional (unless previous discussed in the boat by the client of course)
Yeah I understand you can get a better read on the fish casting more baits including the guide. It's good the guide will hand rod over but for me I couldnt take or wouldn't want to take the rod from him after the hookset. I still wouldn't consider it a fish I caught. I guess it just seems some guides are really out trying to land fish constantly with clients in their boat. Obviously and hopefully fishing is discussed up front with the client and then what happens on water is okay but man…..lots of big fish caught by the guide, not client…
if i ever had a guide i would want them to fish because if fishing is tough, id rather us boat a fish because of his skills than be selfish and not boat anything at all because i wouldn't know what im doing..
Muskie fishing is more of a team sport to me, so if the boat gets some fish in a trip it feels like a success
just my [smilie=2c.gif]
I agree.. Total team effort and if the guide catches a fish the so be it but I get the feeling there's some guides out there lately that have every intention of boating a fish and a trophy on certain waters. They are obviously more dialed in than the client and know what/how/where and when to cast a specific bait.
It would be the same if I hopped in your boat on one of your "home waters" with no to little knowledge. Your gonna know spot on spots and what has worked before increasing your odds. Most times when I have a guest in my boat on LSC and have been pretty dialed in and it's water they don't fish much I'll try and give them great boat control, allow and direct them to cast a specific spot and what to use. I'll hold off or cast behind boat or other side giving them every shot at boating a fish. I even offer every guest or boat partner who hasn't fished LSC much even the bow if they want.
Bottom line it's a team sport and fishing should be discussed up front with guide but I know if I took a trip like I did last year with Marc Thorpe and he was boating fish, casting prime structure and he was fishing like we're two buddies out for the day I wouldn't call that "guiding". I've spoke to several guys over the years who have fishes with certain guides and I keep hearing about the guide getting a few or big fish and hearin how the guide fished with every intention of hooking fish with clients in the boat…
Just an observation I've had over last few years with certain guides….
I agree with you Kid, handing over a rod is very Lame!!!
As far as the guide thing goes, let's flip the script a little. Would you rather be a guide that works a difficult system and focuses more on teaching, or be a guide who fishes an easier system and mops up all the cash by making your own catches exposure and advertisement? Well, to a person that has no soul, that's an easy decision. If I was that guy, I'd lead the muskie world to believe I was god [smilie=bow.gif] and chase the money…..even if I didn't know a DAMN thing about the water other than what I've been shown by others. But that isn't my character or what I'm all about…..
"ricky sox wrangler" said:
I agree with you Kid, handing over a rod is very Lame!!!
HAHA you guys crack me up a little. I now would say something like, What are you doing I just want to see em! but for a lot of people that haven't caught any, or very few, like I was on that day, it was nice to tussle a fish or two that I don't actually count as mine, it was like driving a fat guy past a donut shop… you know hell come back!
Just to throw this out there on the debate of the handed off fish… Consider it like trolling, if you are trolling does the fish you catch still count or is that not your fish and really caught by the boat since the boat was holding the rod. Think back to when you first started and had never caught a muskie or hadn't caught very many, would you have taken the rod?
It goes both ways when guiding. Some people say no, they don't want the rod if I hook a fish and others are very happy to take a fish. Consider that every fish you get a chance to fight adds to your experience level no matter if you, the guide or the boat hooked the fish.
As far as fishing goes, if there is one person in the boat I will be fishing if they want and I've never had a situation where they didn't want me to fish. If there are two people I generally don't fish or don't fish much, though I've had situations where they really want me to fish. Most of the time this is because they want to see how I fish. In all honesty I think many people would benefit from just watching how someone with thousands of rod hours fishes a lure, works structure, casts, fights a fish, etc. I will not fish just to catch fish, that's not my job, and yes it is a job. My job is to put client(s) in the best possible position to have success and I don't care if I ever fish or get to catch a fish.
Bottom line, if you aren't willing to take a lure away from a fish that's going to eat in the eight so that fish can eat the clients bait or a sucker, you shouldn't be guiding.
Exactly Will… See your different, you really care to do your job correctly. I agree the client can learn so much from watching guide. I'm specifically referring to guides who hae every intention of fishing with clients and attempting and consistently landing fish/big fish.
There's a difference out there and some really enjoy guiding a client, teaching, instructing etc… Then there is guides who guide to take clients out, hopefully get them some fish and still try and boat fish themselves.
A couple things stand out in this thread.
I can think of a couple guides who are always posting pictures of big fish they catch. One on LSC, one in MN. But I almost never see them post pictures of big fish clients catch. Just an observation.
Someone on here commented that some guides are simply using the client as a way for them (the guide) to fish and incur fewer expenses….Wow I never really thought of it like that, and makes the choice in guide seem that much more important.
Ive fished with a handful of guides and haven't had a bad experience with any of them. I always want the guide to be casting if there is room in the boat for him or her to do so. I feel it increases the chances so much to have another bait in the water and it is nice for the guide to throw something different to see if the fish have changed their pattern. A client also learns a lot from watching the guide work his bait, do a figure 8, fight a fish, etc. I still expect the guide to fish out of the back of the boat, to position the boat for the clients benefit, and to hand over his or her bait if it gets eaten or starts getting lots of follows. My brother and I recently went with Spencer on LSC and we had a great time. He is a very fun guy to fish with and knows that lake well. He did fish, but it was out of the back of the boat and was changing baits a lot to see if the fish were wanting something new. He gave us the hot baits from recent trips and told us how he liked to fish them. If he had caught a fish he would have given that bait to one of us right away. He did say he hands his rod over to clients, but many clients don't want to land a fish he set the hook on. He definitely was a great guide and I recommend him to anyone looking to cast LSC.
"jasonvkop" said:
Ive fished with a handful of guides and haven't had a bad experience with any of them. I always want the guide to be casting if there is room in the boat for him or her to do so. I feel it increases the chances so much to have another bait in the water and it is nice for the guide to throw something different to see if the fish have changed their pattern. A client also learns a lot from watching the guide work his bait, do a figure 8, fight a fish, etc. I still expect the guide to fish out of the back of the boat, to position the boat for the clients benefit, and to hand over his or her bait if it gets eaten or starts getting lots of follows. My brother and I recently went with Spencer on LSC and we had a great time. He is a very fun guy to fish with and knows that lake well. He did fish, but it was out of the back of the boat and was changing baits a lot to see if the fish were wanting something new. He gave us the hot baits from recent trips and told us how he liked to fish them. If he had caught a fish he would have given that bait to one of us right away. He did say he hands his rod over to clients, but many clients don't want to land a fish he set the hook on. He definitely was a great guide and I recommend him to anyone looking to cast LSC.
So had you paid with your hard earned cash and he stuck a pig, then broadcast to the whole world the fish he caught on your dollar, you wouldn't be bothered by that? I'd kinda be embarrassed if I did that to someone and would show the courtesy to be modest about it. But that would have a negative effect on advertising and building the hype machine…….
"ricky sox wrangler" said:
So had you paid with your hard earned cash and he stuck a pig, then broadcast to the whole world the fish he caught on your dollar, you wouldn't be bothered by that? I'd kinda be embarrassed if I did that to someone and would show the courtesy to be modest about it. But that would have a negative effect on advertising and building the hype machine…….
Not at all! I would rather have him catch that fish than not catch it. Obviously I would rather catch it myself, but if he is fishing behind me then I had first shot at the fish and it wasn't interested in my bait. Let's say my brother and I miss a couple fish and don't catch any for the day, but the guide catches a 50" behind us. I would much rather have that 50" in the boat than not. A 50" in the boat is much better than no fish in the boat, wouldn't you agree?
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