"MattG_braith" said:
[quote="Will Schultz"]As you noted, any harvest probably isn't good and 4 or 5 fish makes a huge impact. BUT we need to be careful only pointing the finger at spearing as if they're the only source of harvest. What about the kid on the Torch river that killed two giants last spring? What about the ones killed by anglers on the Black river in the spring? The "angle" against spearing can't be that they are harvesting more fish than anglers, we don't have that data and if we start digging we may find that anglers are taking just as many.

Seems like an easy solution to the problem then without specifically attacking spearing. Simply closing the harvest season from December through June would cut down harvest by 90% or more. There are a few random fish kept in the summer/fall but I think we have sufficient data to prove that the majority of the harvest on these waters comes thru the ice and in the spring when the fish are on the spawning grounds.

It's a very big problem. Word of mouth is only going to make this issue worse. I don't know how many people I've heard about these fish from. I've been trying to get ahold of this kid for a while. I'd like to have a chat with him about how much harm he's already done. I'm sure he is just uneducated and needs to learn about the fishery. After last years harvests and the kid running his mouth to everybody about how easy it was I'm sure that there will be a lot of people targeting them. His brother works at jacks sport shop in kalkaska so you can imagine how many people have heard.

"Kingfisher" said:
Matt, I don't support June as opening. I like it right where it is. The reason is by June some lakes in the past have already gotten so warm you would be cutting out a whole month of cool water. The farther south you go the warmer the water is in June. May 15 th in the Yoop is fine, and the Last Saturday in April is fine. I would support the season closing on December 15th or 30th and opening when they do now. Mike

Mike, keep in mind, I am strictly talking about the Antrim and Indian chain lakes. Fish are usually still in the spawning areas up until mid-late June on these waters depending on the year. I think these waters should be regulated completely different from any of our other fisheries in the state. I think it would be fair to say closing the season from December 15th thru June 15th would make the most sense although I would not be opposed to closing it through all of June either.

I find it really annoying that they are more than willing to throw in gear restrictions and hundreds of miles of catch and release water for on trout streams, that by their own surveys have accomplished nothing, save the increased pressure on those particular stretches of river because people assume its better fishing. These systems are also heavily supplemented by stocking. I am glad I'm not one of those guys 😈 Yet when you have an at risk population of muskies in 2 watersheds that receive no help, you can't even get an increased MSL or a shortened season. Spear whatever the heck you want in those lakes, like whitefish and perch and pike, but if you can't keep it you cant stick it with a fork either…

"Jim tenHaaf" said:
[quote="Will Schultz"]
Jim – Not sure what you mean by DNR giving up some of their equipment? Are you suggesting that they allow MMA to run nets and the boom shocking boat?

HAHAHA. No, although that would be cool to just rampage around with those electroshockers hanging out in front. That's why I said equipment/manpower. I'm sure their shocking boats are busy in the spring, doing surveys on bodies of water all over MI. I don't know how full their schedule gets, so they may have to skip a different lake to do one of these? Not sure…

Ah, I see what you meant you're thinking to do this they'll have to move manpower/equipment from something else. They should be able to schedule 2015 surveys right now. I believe it was suggested that after ten years of stocking that all waters are surveyed, I'm not 100% on that and it just may have been part of a "you need to" conversation.

Unless MMA is willing to help find a grad student and fund a special lake evaluation there's not much MMA could do about surveys. Even then, the equipment would likely have to come from the DNR and as noted it's pretty tied up during spring.

I am probably in the minority on this as well but I do not think these waters should be stocked with LSC fish until genetic studies have been done to prove that they are indeed the same genetically. I realize they are both GLS strain fish but something tells me that this population has something unique about them genetically and I wouldn't want to compromise their genetic integrity just for the sake of having more fish in the system.

There are probably many reasons that the fish in these lakes show a well above average growth rate and genetics may not have anything to do with it but I would like to see studies done to prove that before stocking outside fish occurs. I know that the prey fish, water temps, and water type has a lot to do with these fish growing so large but there may also be something genetically about them that is also a factor.

I also realize before the dams were in place that these fish were connected to the big water so they obviously have ties to the fish of LSC, so this might all be overkill. I just don't want the DNR to make decisions too fast without considering all biological impacts just to appease the fishing crowd. The mistake of stocking northern strain fish in Great Lakes watershed was made because these factors were not considered or were ignored. I don't want to see that happen again just so we can have more fish to catch sooner rather than later. In my opinion biology should take 100% precedence over the personal desires of us fishermen.

I would not support stocking on said waters. Why spend the money if we can achieve management goals with a special regulation. It's nice to go to LSC and catch more fish in a day than you would in a month on the chain but that's not why I fish. I love the challenge of fishing the chain. Stocking would increase population and that means more pressure. I'm happy banging my head on the wall for hours upon hours. It just makes it more satisfying when you do get the net wet. My biggest concern is keeping such a unique fishery intact for years to come. Small changes could be made without pointing the finger directly at spearing. I hate spearing but I hate seeing 40 lb plus fish plugged while they're spawning just as much. My biggest beef is that special regulations could be considered but they aren't.

"Will Schultz" said:

Why take all the time and effort to establish a management plan and completely ignore it?

The question I have is WHY are they ignoring the management plan when the solutions seem so obvious to us and who do we point the finger at? Is it fear of a public relations backlash? Lack of scientific data? Indifference to muskies in general? I have a lot of respect for Hettinger and Tonello but they are salmonid people first and foremost and seem like they prefer to take a hands off approach when it comes to muskies. Problem is we know that doesn't work.

"Revinchev" said:
. After last years harvests and the kid running his mouth to everybody about how easy it was I'm sure that there will be a lot of people targeting them. His brother works at jacks sport shop in kalkaska so you can imagine how many people have heard.

This is why jacks doesn't get my business anymore, they're far from musky friendly from my experiences there.

"Will Schultz" said:
[quote="Kingfisher"]I still wont support closing it through June. Maybe May 15th but again the smaller lakes in the upper chain are warming fast in June and cutting the open water season leaves you with fall only.

Mike – Closures like this would be specific to small areas and not statewide. Statewide regulations aren't going to change because it works for most places.

The upper waters aren't a concern, so that shouldn't even be part of this discussion. There is no question the lower Antrim chain waters and the Inland waterway should be closed until June 15 at the earliest, some years the end of June. The fish are in place to get these fisheries to where they should be without stocking, IF they are managed correctly. The tag was a start, but along with that needs to be special closures and increased size limit.

"MattG_braith" said:
I am probably in the minority on this as well but I do not think these waters should be stocked with LSC fish until genetic studies have been done to prove that they are indeed the same genetically.

In my opinion biology should take 100% precedence over the personal desires of us fishermen.

The genetics have already been added to one time, so they're not pure. Most of their crazy fast growth is because they really don't face competition for forage throughout their life.

There is no reason to stock if the water can be managed through special regulations. That's the stance the biologists are taking and if that's the case we need to respond accordingly. If management is going to get the fishery to levels proposed in the management plan then the season, size limit and possibly gear restrictions need to be addressed – immediately.

I think the Chain should be protected as this system is one of the last hold outs of Native spotted fish. Leave the seasons as they are and make it a strict catch and release only until such time as numbers of adult fish are restored. Sort of like what Will is talking about with new Waters. A 12 year no harvest until populations have grown and stabilized. This is a good discussion.