I realize that I'm probably going to get the answers I want to hear but I'm starting with MMA members first.
Would you accept and support the following regulation change to the muskellunge season?
First Saturday in June until December 15th:
All lakes north of M-55, Lake St Clair, St Clair River and Detroit River
Last Saturday in April until December 15th:
All inland waters south of M-55
I can understand and agree with the northern zone seasons because they are primarily naturally reproducing and this would eliminate most spearing. I would question the December 15th closing of the southern zone. I just see opportunity lost, for little gain, with that closing date. I was able to catch fish this year in March before the season closed and also, yesterday. Those opportunities would be lost with those dates and its getting to be about the only quiet times on some of these southern lakes. Most of the lakes in the south zone already have a spearing ban, so the only benefit I see, is the shutting down of spearing, on the few southern lakes where its not already banned. Also there are enforcement issues if bass and pike dont have the same seasons.
I would suggest moving the north/south boundary to US10, protecting Hamlin and the Titt Chain lakes from spearing, and leaving the March 15th closing date to keep the late/early season opportunities intact in the south zone.
I also dont understand the November 30th closing of some of these southern lakes that are not brood lakes. I just see this as lost opportunity. Am I wrong? Enlighten me.
Ken M.
In the northern regions north of 55 I would just use the upper pen opening date of may 15th. I could live with the december 15th closing state wide. This will give all the fish a nice rest over the winter. I dont like the june opener because it makes us miss a lot of big fish in the chains in May. The only part I really agree with however is a December 15th or 31st closer state wide. We can leave the openers where they are and close Musky season on the 15th of December. This does what we want. It stops Tip ups on Musky waters and spearing of Muskies will be over for good. You realize there will be much opposition to any of these changes? The D.N.R . would have less trouble with a may 15th opener as they already have that in the upper pen. That would just involve dropping the line to M-55. I would also like to see the broodstock lakes open until dec 15th. This would easier all the way around. Two zones with different openers and one closing date for both zones. One other thing as KMUR says why close the lower lakes on the 15th?: We could go with a two week stagger. lower lakes start last saturday in april and end Dec 31st. Upper lakes start may 15th and end Dec 15th . Two simple zones. I dont want to give up my late May fishing on the Torch chain. Mike and Michelle
Wow, not exactly the responses I expected…
Is the good of the fishery worth loosing some fishing time?
The thought was that to get something like this to have a chance it would have to make enforcement easier, angler understanding of the regs. easier and be a benefit to the fishery. The June opener is simply a spawning closure as the current last Saturday in April isn't getting it done and even a May 15th opener doesn't cut it on big water. There is still spawning going on in Northern Michigan and the UP until June and even into June. While a responsible angler isn't going to fish for/harass spawning fish not all anglers would have that self control when looking down at a 48"+ fish.
If the spearing community was to get organized I could see the possibility of the banned lakes dissapearing. If that happened then all lakes in S. MI with the exception of those closing on 11/30 would be open to spearing. Everything closing on 12/15 eliminates that issue.
To address "lost opportunity", I just looked back on my logs and since 2000 I've gained 9 days in December but only two of those after 12-15 and 10 days fishing before the March 15th closure. Not really a big deal, in my opinion. I would love to fish all year but I won't fish for spawning fish, some people would. I have some major guilt over catching a pre-spawn fish on May 21, 2004 that likely dumped all her eggs after being caught without spawning.
I don't see much of an issue with the current regs. for southern MI lakes except the lack of a permanent elimination to spearing. The northern lakes are the real concern partucularly since the hopes for a solution to supplement the natural lakes doesn't look as good as it did a year or two ago.
I would hate to have to wait until June to fish but it is probably better for UP fish. Most seasons, muskies are pre-spawn or barely post-spawn in the waters I fish. I'm sure that some released fished are killed every year because they are stressed from spawning. I don't know how significant this number of fish is but every one counts with our slow growing fish and low density waters.
The December 15th date would be the best early Christmas present I could ever ask for!
I'm with Jon on this… I don't want to wait until June but in the big picture it is going to be more important to preserve what we have than try to supplement it. The current lake densities of remaining "natural" fish are very low. If they continue to drop and are supplemented with stocking of a different strain we will likely see a localized extinction event of the northern Michigan GLS. No one wants this to happen. I think that the key here is that we all need to remember that we are all someone else to someone else. Meaning we can't say "Why do I have to do this why can't we just do x or y elsewhere" We, the living generations, are reaping the reward of shortsighted planning in the past. No one wants to lose something that they are used to (current seasons) but these fish and the entire great lakes basin ecosystem needs help. Don't forget that VHS is just outside the door and right behind it is the flying carp and who knows whats next. The only way "our" fish will survive is to be healthy and productive. Remember Darwin- Survival of the fittest means the ability to leave progeny to continue a particular genetic line. I for one will stop fishing for them altogether if it means that I can benefit the species down the road. The time to act is now the fishery is in very real danger and we all need to make sacrifices.
Kevin
I dont think anyone is hurting the fishery starting May 15th. I dont want to give up an entire month of Musky fishing when I see no benefit. It has always been my opinion that season on Muskellunge should close for the winter. If that means december 15th Im in. If that means december 31st Im in. December 15th coincides with the St. Clair fishery. I dont think anyone will oppose the ending at December 15th. But being forced to fish lower michigan and Other states during the month of May does not sit well with me at all. This is the only month when jerk off jet skis and other annoying water craft are not on the northern lakes. Ill give up two weeks. I vote to drop the line to m-55 and start May 15th and end in December. The object is to close Musky fishing during the winter season. Lets stick to that. Mike and Michelle
"Kingfisher" said:
I dont think anyone is hurting the fishery starting May 15th. I dont want to give up an entire month of Musky fishing when I see no benefit.
Isn't it a benefit to the fishery for the season to remain closed when the fish are spawning? These are not stocked fish and to have the season open when they're spawning simply doesn't make sense. Natural populations should be protected to the fullest possible extent. How can we say, to other sportsmen, that we want to close the season so they can't spear yet we're not willing to give up fishing when the fish are spawning?
We are an educated group. We handle these fish with care. The opener has been the end of April for as long as I can remember. I can not see where we have hurt the fishery at all by fishing the Chain and other northern lakes in May. The facts dont warrant us changing the opening day at all. There is no data showing that Musky fisherman have caused a decline in the northern lakes. We cant fish half of the lakes in July and AGUST BECAUSE THE TEMPS ARE TOO WARM. Now we are considering eliminating an entire month of cool water fishing? Im sorry but its one of only months that I really enjoy being on the water. No personal water craft, cool temps, Pre spawn fatties, Big fish shallow. By June the tankers are back out in the huge expanses of the big water and 90 percent uncatchable. Lets not be to extreme . Muskellunge should not be fair game in the winter because they are not very active and are easy targets for spears. They are the only group who are hurting the fishery and putting nothing back.If this is the alternative I would rather fight for the spearing bans on a lake to lake basis. I am a Musky fisherman and I enjoy fishing for them in May. I will not budge on that. Mike and Michelle
All the stocked lakes above the line dont reproduce anyway so thats a moot point. If preserving the naturals in the Chain and Indian river system is the Goal than we need to urdge the D.N.R. to spend a couple of years raising Indian River fish and restocking these waters with our own spotteds. I do not want to change the opening dates. If we open that can of worms we may never get that back. Will, I love ya man. You are so dedicated to this fishery you would even give up your own fishing to save the resource but I dont believe we need to go that far. Also look at the fact that the lower lakes would get twice as much pressure in May . I can see 5 boats on Osterhout on the end of April Opener. I still believe that getting spearing bans on a lake by lake should be the course. Cool water periods are better for release purposes and give us all a short period of pristine waters to fish before the hordes decend on the lakes. I have fished the entire month of may for as long as Ive been fishing Muskies and it is right there with October as one of my favorite months to be on the water. If there were facts to support moving the opener from the end of april I would support it. But there are none. We dont hurt the fishery. The only ones who do, are the guys who kill them. I do not want to pay for their crimes. The facts are that the Muskellunge fishery in Michigan is growing and growing fast. There are Muskies turning up in places where there have not been muskies for over 20 years. I like the opening days the way they are. I support closing the season on Muskellunge on December 15th . I would not complain about the opener changing to May 15th for all waters above m-55. I support a lake by lake petition drive to add spearing bans on all the rest of the stocked lakes. A december closure of said lakes would not address this issue if Pike were present because anglers will make mistakes so Spearing bans still need to be in force. I also want to see several Catch and release only Lakes or more lakes with the 50 inch size limit in place. Hamlin would be a good choice for a 50 inch size limit. Mona Lake would be a good choice for a catch and release Lake. If we have to give the spearing crowd something I would rather give them a couple of lakes where they can kill at will so they can learn first hand how they waste the resource. They can stock their own lakes. Mike and Michelle
Mike-
The delayed mortality of botched catch and release is probably ten times higher than that of spearing, plus these fish do not need any additional stress at about or near the spawn. We ALL have to be willing to give something up to make this work and the only way we can do that is simple to follow unilateral EASY to enforce rules that work for the resource, not the angler. I hear what you are saying but I dis-agree with the logic behind it.
Kevin
I dont buy the mortality thing. Hot water temps yes. Cold spring water temps no. We are not hurting the fishery by fishing in May. We start getting to far to one side and we are going to lose members big time.This club has been on track until this issue. You know me Kevin. I care about the fishery as much as the next guy. I have seen absolutly no evidence of any dead fish from our club members fishing in the month of May. I have said I would support may 15th but thats as far as I go. I have to drive a minimum of 1 hour to get to a musky lake. I get tired of fishing the same puddle all the time. The way it stands we spread the load out over the entire state. How many fish have we even caught in the last 5 years from these chains? 10,12 ?? Its not worth changing the laws over. Mike and Michelle
Here's why we can't throw stones…
Spearing has been around forever but like a late April opener that doesn't make it biologically sound.
The spearing community is NOT the only group hurting the fishery. There are two times during the year when the majority of the fish up north get killed. One is during spearing season and the other is in the month of May. With the following information I honestly couldn't look the DNR in the face and propose a spearing ban without also proposing a May closure. I don't like to put this information out there much since it shoots our argument against spearing in the foot.
Of 58 Master Angler entered hook and line harvested muskies in the northern lakes since 1994, 19 were during the month of May. That is 1/3 of all fish harvested in a month when there are fewer anglers on the water!!!
What’s more surprising in the northern lakes? Master Angler entered spear harvest since 94 = 19
In one month of the year open water anglers harvested as many as the spearing community. I realize that these numbers don't reflect all of the fish harvested in May or during spearing. However, it is a good sample from outside our circle of muskie anglers.
If the open water angler does as much damage in one month than spearing does in two months. Aren't we being hypocritical by saying spearing needs to be eliminated when in fact "we" the open water anglers are just as guilty? Maybe moreso since the open water anglers harvested as many in one month as spearing in two months.
The way I see it, if we can't make a minor sacrifice then I wouldn't ask another to make a sacrifice. We need to be pointing our finger at the mirror as much as we do at the darkhouse.
Muskie anglers release them, Joe Angler that catches the biggest fish he's ever caught sight fishing with a Husky Jerk is going to put the fish in the bottom of the boat.
Mike-
The average angler thing is what I was getting at, not the educated ones. The five minutes out of the water on carpet and debate about releasing it ones are not going to live and that is scientifically known. The fish simply can not get enough oxygen back to the tissue fast enough to avoid necrosis of the muscle tissue, then infection and possibly sepsis etc… etc… the blood diffusion of a bony fish is primarily through capillaries and they are just not efficient enough to rebound. Plus fish can not take the equivalent of a deep breath to increase the o2 saturation. The problem is simple, Idiots=dead fish. The sad thing is that the idiots are prolific and the MMA members not so much.
Kevin
This aint gonna be easy… and man I hate to do it, but I have to take us back a step further even from a general concensus. This is just one man's opinion of course, for what its worth. The one thing that everyone has agreed on so far is a closure during the January-February hard water spearing period.
But I can't do it, can't go along with that. I cannot support the elimination of ANY sporting interest, for anyone. Even when it contradicts so strongly with my own personal interests, and goes against best fisheries management practices. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see each and every muskie protected to a greater extent, and ESPECIALLY those Northern natural reproduction waters hanging on by a thread. But I just can't feel good about targeting the spearing community so directly, and absolutely, to do it.
I'm trying to stay away from a long diatribe, so I'll just sum it up with what I would like to see for the seasons. Sorry Will, I know you were looking for a (a) yea, or (b) nay, not (c) other______. So I vote Nay, but propose a compromise:
North of M-55 open the Saturday before Memorial Day, close January 31.
South of M-55 open last Saturday in April, close January 31.
It is extremely difficult to throw a blanket regulation over half the state. I understand the value of simplified regulations and enforcement, but Michigan is just too diverse from region to region. Michigan is challenged in that respect compared to other states, because of its diversity, and the fact that each region only has a handful of muskie waters each. More complex regulations would be best for the fishery, but not practicable.
Duke-
I have to say "Word to the founding father"
"These are the times that try men's souls…" -Thomas Paine
and can I get a little Voltaire with that' "I detest what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
Translation-
What is best for everyone including the fish may bother some people and I H8 spearing, but it is legit, and it is here to stay therefore targeting them is un-fair.
Good perspective man keep it up.
Duke in 07'
Kevin
Yes true. I posted those numbers last year when we covcered this stuff in detail. Now add all the kills and mutiply by 10. The number is still so low that we are stocking 0ver 100 fish to every fish killed . We are gaining not losing the way it is. The intermediate chain is not in trouble. I saw as many fish up there as I did on any lake in the state. Ill bet more fish were killed in August on St. Clair than all the rest combined. The facts are there. We are not killing enough fish per year to get into trouble. We just put 18 thousand fish in Hamlin. Even if the survival rate was 1 in 100 that is 1800 Muskies back in the waters. That is more than all the fish killed in the last 20 years and that is just one lake. What Im saying is we dont have a problem. Why deny our members the spring run when we are not doing enough damage to mention? Last year we all agreed that continued stocking and education was the answer. I would challunge the D.N.R. TO switch over to Spotteds for a couple of years . I would like to see Fry in the stocked lakes this year and leave the ponds for great lakes spotteds. You all know as well as I do that a couple of good year classes stocked into the Indian river and Torch systems will put back way more than have been killed up there in the last 20 years. Let them spear. They are not doing enough damage to make a difference. Higher size limits benefit all of us. Remember guys I posted all this last year on the master angler fish and what it amounted to was we stock more muskies in Osterhout than were killed in the last ten years. Why waste time and effort fighting the spearing guys over seasonal changes and or spearing bans when we should be raising cash for feeding baby fish? Education leads to less dead fish. Stocking is our putting fish back into the systems. We are gaining not losing ground. There is no reason to change the direction now. But I would support the season being closed in the winter for the same reasons as Bass enjoy a closed winter season. Man you guys we covered all this last year and the year before. There is not enough evidence to warrant changing anything at this time. Mike and Michelle
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