Listen, I will be the first person that cringes everytime I hear about someone spearing a 'ski, especially a slob like that in my back yard. However, I know a buddy of the guy who got this fish who was out on Sanford with his group when he got it. This guy is a true sportsman and fishing nut. He is a bass nut and local tourney fisherman who is constantly telling his bass buddies to be kind to the muskies and the muskie nuts on the Titt Chain. His family has been spearing fish for over 4 generations on local lakes. He knows the difference between a pike and a ski when he sees them and assures me (and I believe him) that he would never spear a big ski. I also know that the guy that poked this fish would normally pass on a ski but this one was so big he knew it was going on the wall. While it breaks my heart (he told me the ski was 48×27 and about 42 lbs on an uncertified scale) that this fish was taken out of the system I also know that I typically here of between 1 and 3 pigs being line caught by crappie and bass weekend warriors every spring that keep fish smaller than that trophy and while I don;t like that either we all swallow hard and accept it. I will contiune to be against spearing in any lake where muskies are stock or reproduce naturally, however, I sleep a little better at night knowing that the few guys who spear Sanford regularly are true sportsmen who almost always are spearing just to put a meal of pike on the table. Sanford needs to harvest a bunch of pike out of that lake and I guess every now and again we have to give up a pig to eliminate a lot more hammer handles.
Sounds like you've come to terms with the loss, Scott, so that's good to hear. You must be getting a little more immune to it through the years. Still takes a grieving period though, eh?
The classic length/girth calculation (girth*girth*length/800) puts the fish at 44.2 lbs, but since it had a big ole dogfish in it's belly, I believe a number closer to the first weight taken (also unregistered) which was 45 lbs. Then 42 lbs a few hours later, then 38 lbs the following day at the taxidermist. Pretty rapid dehydration. Also makes you realize that there ARE 50+ lbers in Sanford at certain times of the year.
Don't get me wrong Pete, I have not come to terms with it. Still makes me sick. I'm just trying not to eat myself alive about things I can't do anything about. I guess what makes me feel better is this guy wasn't a pure meat hunter killing every legal fish that swims by his hole to put on the BBQ. Rather, he had his once in a lifetime shot at a trophy and took it. I don't like it or support it but it is legal and his choice. Consolation prize… I've seen bigger ones in there with my own eye so I know there is a 50+ lber out there waiting for that kiss on the head from me.
Scrappy just alluded to part of the problem… the 'meat hunters'. Not knocking someone for eating fish or making any other bunny-hugging comments here. I like to eat fish too. I just don't think that muskies are a good 'food fish' and should managed for minimal harvest. Not every spear person is out there looking to put something on the wall. The majority up here are looking for something legal. There is definitely a larger percentage throwing at anything over 24 inches than that are looking for a four footer. The folks that are throwing at everything and pronging a bunch of little fish can make a huge impact on the muskie fishery. Can't really bash the fisherman if they are actually being legal. If every spearer was looking for a 'trophy' and being cautious about not spearing sub-legals than I wouldn't be chiming in here.
A tag system, guys. Period. If the state believes it works for deer then it would work for skis, right? In some cases it would only be keeping honest people honest, but might lower overall harvest or excessive harvest by a few. Wouldn't it be really nice if some of the revenue from tags went right to stocking and habitat restoration? Keep a muskie? Gotta tag it AND report it. You get one. I believe its long overdue.
jasonvkop-
There is probably some truth to what you say there, but the tag system would still help to limit harvest, and that is the goal. At least you could only legally take one fish. I think this would make people be more selective and maybe even help them to follow the law a bit more. We will always have some sort of mortalities, whether it be in the form of spearing or delayed hooking mortality, it is our job to teach people why they should and how they can limit it. There will always be some that break the rules and hurt our fisheries, all we can do is find ways to make it happen less frequently. We can never make everyone as smart as you and I! [smilie=2thumbsup.gif]
I have to agree with John. A tag system would limit the harvest to one fish per year. There was one guy last year that killed 13 on 6 mile all by himself. That is what needs to be stopped. Also if the Tag went to replace the dead Musky you have just entered a winning game because many of the tags will never be filled. Surplus fish mean more fish in the long run. This way you can remove the spearing bans and move to the center of the issue and get into a working relationship with this group instead of fighting them every time we come to the table. If they see hook and line fishermen with exactly the same rights as they have we take away one of their biggest bitches and that is discrimination. I think the Tag system forces harvesters to replace the fish they kill. It the fairest way. Mike
I do like the idea of a tag system, but we are assuming that people will follow the rules. I bet a lot of people will still keep fish without using their tag on the fish. Just think how easy it would be if you lived on a lake to just catch the fish and quickly bring it back to your house. Along with that, a lot of lakes dont get patrolled and those that do its usually by a sheriff who just looks for life jackets, etc. I do like the idea, but I think it would be very hard to enforce but thats just my opinion.
"Kingfisher" said:
This way you can remove the spearing bans and move to the center of the issue and get into a working relationship with this group instead of fighting them every time we come to the table.
By implementing a one fish w/ tag rule you are taking away the opportunity for the spearer to harvest a muskie the other 58 days of the season. Taking away their opportunity isn't going to be seen as being put on the same level I can promise that. It will be seen as an elitist move by a very small group of anglers that don't want muskies killed.
The other problem is that to do this right would require that someone be in posession of the tag to even be fishing for muskies (like sturgeon).
IMO the biggest problem I see is the kid who catches a 50" muskie when fishing for bluegills… he/she would have to release said muskie if he/she wasn't in posession of a muskie kill tag.
I think the harvest will be exactly the same as it is now, the only difference is that at least some money will go directly to the fishery of muskies and not elsewhere. As for filling the tag for the sake of filling it so whatast with the potential for a penalty it will hold a lot of guys of from sticking a questionable one. Bottom line is that there is no good answer. If it were my choice I would ban spearing on any lake with a low density of adult fish until it reached XX level. I know that is out of the question but I think it wiuld be responsible stewardship. One day there wont be anything to spear but carp and then where will they be…
Kevin
Will's got a valid points. Someone would need a tag just to be able fish for muskies or keep an accidentally caught muskie. My guess is that kids under 16 would not need a tag, but should report the catch? If I bring someone on my boat who only fishes for muskies once or twice a year, they may find it difficult to buy a tag in addition to the regular license. In a sense, this would be pushing people away from the sport. Maybe one could fish for muskies but if your're over 16 without a tag you cannot harvest. There's no way to please everyone. Just throwing ideas out there. [/i]
You know, I hear you Will but this elitist argument is a bunch of crap. Rather, what it is would be needed regulations to protect a scarce fishery. The Tarpon, Redfish and more recently the Red Snapper fisherman on the Gulf Coat don't like the restrictive regulations they place on these fish either but they don't argue it is elitist to do so, they call it what it is, needed regulations to protect a class of fish being overharvested. Exactly the same is happening here, there is no reason these guys need to be spearing muskies, period. There are pleanty of other fish they can spear like Walleye and pike. There are way too few hachery fish being produced by the State of Michigan to go around…most of these fish coming at the expense of MMA and you personaly Will. If the darkhouse guys want to spear muskies maybe they can start paying to ship them in from Iowa and to make donations to keep the hatchery up and running. We really need to quit finding excuses as to why these guys should get their way and do what is right for the fishery…speak up to change the regs. A tag system would allow these guys to keep their one trophy (or grill grill fish) per year. As for the 5 year old fishing bluegills, Daddy can take a picture and have a replica made and if he can't afford to do that then it is a good leason on conservation early on for the little man.
This is a tough issue and what I know is it is a shame to see any musky die period. I have killed fish accidentally (not a musky) and I know it happens with a hook and line but the odds are low that a fish hooked and handled properly will die. If you spear a fish it is certain that it will die and your intent is to kill it.
I think a limited resource like muskies needs to be protected and we should look at the intent of someone that just wants to kill one. It may be legal but that doesn't make it right and how many of you looked at that speared musky and felt sick? I did.
"Scrappy" said:
You know, I hear you Will but this elitist argument is a bunch of crap. Rather, what it is would be needed regulations to protect a scarce fishery.
Is it? Really? It seems to me that elitism is exactly the problem I ran into a few years back from anglers all over, not just the spearing community. I was pressured into going after spearing once before without a leg to stand on because I didn't have the science available to back OUR feelings. A lot more damage was done to the reputation of MMA in the span of a few weeks than has been done in all other years combined. You know which side I'm on so don't confuse the situation, I'm simply stating the facts.
"Scrappy" said:
The Tarpon, Redfish and more recently the Red Snapper fisherman on the Gulf Coat don't like the restrictive regulations they place on these fish either but they don't argue it is elitist to do so, they call it what it is, needed regulations to protect a class of fish being overharvested. Exactly the same is happening here, there is no reason these guys need to be spearing muskies, period.
Apples and oranges but I'll use it since it supports what I'm trying to say.
1. Their current regulations are based on science and NOT feelings.
2. Their need for restrictive limits is a result of long term overfishing by commercial fisherman not angler harvest.
3. Their current regulations are state and federal mandates based on science, not feelings, to protect spawning/naturally reproduced fish.
4. Their reglations DO NOT come from a very small group of anglers thinking their way of angling is better and trying to regulate someone elses angling method based on feelings and not science.
Speaking of science…
Do we have ANY science to support limiting spearing? Be honest with this, it's all about feelings and the fact that we don't like to see dead muskies.
I'll say the same thing here (into the mirror) that I said to B.A.S.S. when they wanted the bass season changed but had never sponsored a single study to support their argument. What has MMA done about collecting the science needed to make this regulation change? Has MMA done anything about collecting data on muskellunge harvest, open water or through spearing?
Don't get me wrong I don't like seeing dead muskies, I hate it, I wish they would all die of old age but the fact is that this is all based on feelings until we can get our $hit together.
The bombshell…
What really stops me in my tracks and keeps me from pointing my finger at someone else? It is likely that I killed 10-15 muskies last year some were probably undersize too. Should I be banned from fishing in Michigan for muskies? I'm being serious! I probably killed more muskies in the past two years than 99.9% of the spearers will kill in a lifetime. What happens if we add in all the members of MMA and compare that to the number of muskies speared by members of the Michigan Dark House Angling Association?
Argue that based on science, not feelings, then tell me which angling group should have more restrictive regulations.
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