"Will Schultz" said:
So I know I've said this before and I still think it's the best and likely easiest way to stop spearing. What if we ignore spearing all together and close the season statewide on November 30th?
Sounds good. Are you also wanting to include having a later opener (June statewide) or is this just to end spearing and we sacrifice nothing. If necessary I would be more than willing to give up the spring as well if we are going to base arguments on protecting congregated fish. May even look better in the eyes of others. I'm sure it would be hard to swallow but ultimately it would be best for the fishery.
"Revinchev" said:
[quote="Will Schultz"]So I know I've said this before and I still think it's the best and likely easiest way to stop spearing. What if we ignore spearing all together and close the season statewide on November 30th?
Sounds good. Are you also wanting to include having a later opener (June statewide) or is this just to end spearing and we sacrifice nothing. If necessary I would be more than willing to give up the spring as well if we are going to base arguments on protecting congregated fish. May even look better in the eyes of others. I'm sure it would be hard to swallow but ultimately it would be best for the fishery.
I would hate to lose the May fishing in the lower half of the LP, as this is a peak period, and most fisheries down here are well post spawn. The current LSC opener with the addition of the Antrim Chain, and Indian River Chain added to the lake list would be great. I think just getting the Torch River with special regulations would be a simpler fix.
How about December 15… And open at the normal time except torch and Indian chains, which would open June 1.
I seriously don't see a season closure happening, they seem to be trying to streamline everything and eliminate season closures, as in bass seasons. Also there is zero scientific data that would support it in any other lakes than the northern chains with natural reproduction.
I was only thinking that because of the unwillingness to put special regulations on certain waters a statewide uniform open and close would be the most simplistic way and may be more appealing to those in charge. It also may be the only way to avoid "complex regulations" which seems to be keeping us from getting the native waters the protection that they need.
I don't see how having special regs on our natural reproducing lakes would be considered "complex" especially if you look at the trout regulations. I would also be all for a end of November or like JP said a December 15 closure. I'm not looking forward to the frustrations involved with this fight (from both the dark house asshats and our own DNR), but if good sound science comes out on top it will all be worth it!
"Revinchev" said:
I was only thinking that because of the unwillingness to put special regulations on certain waters a statewide uniform open and close would be the most simplistic way and may be more appealing to those in charge. It also may be the only way to avoid "complex regulations" which seems to be keeping us from getting the native waters the protection that they need.
I agree that uniform regs are what they are going to look for, and that would mean a late start, which for all of our stocked lakes is really just taking away a month of good fishing for no reason. My point on no science though is that there is no reason to close the season before march 15. the uphill battle would be the early close date, not the late start date. It would be pretty transparent as to why we wanted it closed early… and we wouldn't be able to give a good enough reason why.
"Will Schultz" said:
So I know I've said this before and I still think it's the best and likely easiest way to stop spearing. What if we ignore spearing all together and close the season statewide on November 30th?
100% agree with this!!!
Also, I'm completely behind MMA and Will on this. Whatever is needed, please count me in!!!
My 2 cents….. Sportsman vs. sportsman battles are never good. I think it's important that we only fight to protect our muskie resources, and not take away from spearing as a whole. Closing the season seems like a great way to accomplish that.
Will,
You have my complete support, and it sounds like that of MMA. This should not be a personal battle for you! You are not on an island.
"Duke" said:
Statewide all waters December 15 close, June 1 opener, catch & immediate release between!? 😀
i was just going to write the same thing duke! great solution, it could follow the bass seasons for next year, catch and keep from memorial day to dec 31 and immediate release around till memorial day.
"Will Schultz" said:
The most simple solution is to align all regions to a single open and close. The logical step would be first Saturday in June opening and a December 15 close. Keeping in mind that the LP now has numerous water that should get natural reproduction with fish spawning through the month of May.
Exactly…..With the main goal being GLS populations once again naturally reproduce / self sustain, closing all waters to muskellunge spearing……. I'd give up May, especially with Dukes idea of catch and immediate release! [smilie=brows.gif]
"Steve S" said:
Why not close all muskie lake Nov 30 and open there regular dates, S MI. last Sat in April, St. Clair 2nd Sat in June and whatever N MI. is
Then it's just banning muskie spearing by closing the season and that won't fly with the DNR. It's also not protecting spawning fish, it might work in some small waters but the big rivers and big lakes still have spawning fish in mid-May. The St Clair opening barely works and some years they're still spawning. To make this have a real chance we must have some biological reason to close the season. This reason is to protect egg laden females from fall through spawn. That means a earliest possible opening date of June first statewide. If we're willing to take away spearing from them we better be willing to sacrifice a small part of our season for the long term benefit of the fishery.
"Will Schultz" said:
If we're willing to take away spearing from them we better be willing to sacrifice a small part of our season for the long term benefit of the fishery.
Well said. Would it help the argument to the DNR if we pushed to have seasons modeled after other states with well known muskellunge fisheries and good tourism around them like Wisconsin and Minnesota?
Wisconsin's current seasons (for this year) are May 24 to Nov 30 for their Northern lakes and May 3 to Dec 31 for their Southern lakes and Minnesota's is June 7 to Dec 1. I think both of these options would be a huge improvement over what we have right now.
Well, been outta the saddle for a little while, but I guess with all the rain today, I'm gonna hop back in and give my $0.02
I agree with a lot that's been said already. Namely, closing the season Dec.15th and reopening early June.
We do have to be careful on giving the reasons WHY we want closing for those times. Don't fall into the mistake of saying things like, "The muskies are easy targets in Austin or Torch River because they are so predictable and it's shallow water." The spearers can come right back and say that we should then close down the season July 1-August 31 because muskies are easier targets during higher water temps because of their high metabolisms, and prone to easier deaths. They don't see that we are actually good stewards of our resources, and will stop fishing altogether if it's for the good of muskies.
"Duke" said:
Statewide all waters December 15 close, June 1 opener, catch & immediate release between!? 😀
And, just to be fair, we'll let the spearers do all the "looking and releasing" they want. They can sit in their shanties for as long as they desire with just no spear in hand. [smilie=biggrin.gif]
The most annoying part of this, to me, is that we are having the following discussion:
spearer,"its my right because it is discrimination to have regs against certain types of anglers"
us, "we need to drastically reduce harvest in order to maintain acceptable and healthy populations of muskies in both natural and supplemented lakes in an attempt to meet the DNR management goals for musky populations. all of this to create economic impact, angler satisfaction, and healthier population densities of other fish species that are imbalanced due to lack of good management historically."
DNR, " the spearers have a point there…"
[smilie=brickwall.gif] [smilie=brickwall.gif] [smilie=brickwall.gif] [smilie=brickwall.gif]
Bottom line… spearing muskies is idiotic.
Other states figured it out… Michigan should.
I agree Vano… we want to abolish spearing to better the resource. The spearing community argues that because indians speared before the United States existed that "their tradition" should be upheld.
Science and management plans should be used to make regulation changes. If tradition, and history has taught us anything… it is what NOT to do.
It is idiotic. Why can't Michigan follow suit adopting a model similar to Wisconsin's? Why are we the only state that allows this stupidity? Scott's dead on, "traditionally" and "historically" we have destroyed, polluted, demolished, and abused our resources. In this case to the point of near extinction from certain waters where they once thrived. Now the DNR is sensitive to a practice that "traditionally" wiped out areas of these large prespawn, predictable, and vulnerable fish? The management plans have already been proven to work elsewhere backed by science, seems we have to reinvent the wheel.
Not trying to throw a wrench in this. On St. Clair doesn't pike open up before Muskie, cause I've heard that they go out pike fishing are really targeting Muskie. Talked to a guy awhile back at Hudson and he said he's caught Muskies in Dec, I said it closes Nov 30th. He say's he'd tell the CO that he's Walleye fishing. So there's always people that will break the rules. I know in WI. & MN. that Muskies are so revered. Do we need to educate the public more to get them on our side to ban spearing and that they don't re-produce well. How did WI. stop the spearing. Do they know how well the Muskies re-produce on St Clair?
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