I've been asked to write an official position from MMA on spearing to be reviewed by the Esocid Committee. There is a push for expansion once again to open the 30 lakes currently closed and also St Clair. Here are some thoughts off the top of my head for how MMA might be positioned on this topic.
– MMA supports spearing closures on all waters currently in the process of restoration
– MMA supports spearing closures on all waters that do not meet fish/acre levels stated in the Muskellunge Management Plan
– MMA supports allowing spearing on all waters for N. Pike with a 100% closure on Muskellunge spearing
– MMA supports the spearing and seasonal closure on Lake St Clair muskellunge this is a world class fishery that puts millions of dollars into the local economy annually
– MMA does not support the "tradition" of spearing as this supposed tradition is rooted in Native American spearing
Please add any thoughts that you might have on Muskellunge spearing here in Michigan.
"Will Schultz" said:
– MMA supports allowing spearing on all waters for N. Pike with a 100% closure on Muskellunge spearing
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This is a tough one for me. It seems the "accidental" spearing of small muskies by people targeting pike may be a pretty big factor in keeping some lakes from recovering or hitting their target fish/acre. Why can't we have our lakes that are being managed for muskies have a complete ban. Seems like our main success stories from the stocking programs have been on lakes with spearing bans while the lakes without protections have been for the most part disappointing.
Of the listed bullet points, are we looking to pick just one to support or many?
The state would still be using the musky tag and the 1 fish per season, correct?
I also think it is very tricky to open up pike spearing on all lakes as I believe many muskies would be speared, either by accident or because people know they can get away with it.
Canada doesn't allow spearing on LSC (at least I think they don't), so is there any data we can get from them to help our stance?
This is a tough one for me. It seems the "accidental" spearing of small muskies by people targeting pike may be a pretty big factor in keeping some lakes from recovering or hitting their target fish/acre. Why can't we have our lakes that are being managed for muskies have a complete ban. Seems like our main success stories from the stocking programs have been on lakes with spearing bans while the lakes without protections have been for the most part disappointing.
While this may all be true, it seems like it would be out of line to take a stance as a Musky organization on spearing ban for Pike. This is especially true on waters such as the Antrim Chain, Drowned river mouths, Hamlin, Margrethe, ect…
Those lakes all have "acceptable" pike spearing that shouldn't be banned because of the Muskellunge management. Logically the politically correct stance to take is to ban spearing of Muskellunge and hope and pray that dark house people take this seriously despite our preconceived notions that they "accidently" spear muskies…
I can see arguments both ways, and I'm interested to see what others think about this…
"Will Schultz" said:
– MMA supports spearing closures on all waters currently in the process of restoration
– MMA supports spearing closures on all waters that do not meet fish/acre levels stated in the Muskellunge Management Plan
– MMA supports allowing spearing on all waters for N. Pike with a 100% closure on Muskellunge spearing
– MMA supports the spearing and seasonal closure on Lake St Clair muskellunge this is a world class fishery that puts millions of dollars into the local economy annually
– MMA does not support the "tradition" of spearing as this supposed tradition is rooted in Native American spearingPlease add any thoughts that you might have on Muskellunge spearing here in Michigan.
*Which lakes are considered under restoration?
*Again, which lakes do not meet the fish/acre levels? I like this point as it would be based off a plan already in affect with the DNR
*So we open up LSC to spearing, but wouldn't be open to musky spearing as the season would be closed? Don't mind it, but feel a lot of muskies would again be taken illegally
*I like the first point in fighting this one. I think restoring muskies into lakes they were naturally in is more traditional than anything.
Yes Chris we would prolly not get anywhere trying to get spearing bans on those waters where pike spearing already exists. But if your asking me to support taking away the spearing bans on lakes like Murray and Budd and allowing pike spearing there that's really tough for me to support. I think we all know that's going to damage those lakes and for what? There are thousands of lakes where pike are available and spearing is legal, I don't think having a handful of lakes closed to all spearing to provide a decent muskie fishery is too much to ask.
"jasonvkop" said:
*Which lakes are considered under restoration?
*Again, which lakes do not meet the fish/acre levels?
*So we open up LSC to spearing, but wouldn't be open to musky spearing as the season would be closed?
Lakes under restoration are pretty much every water that's been stocked the last few years.
90% of the managed waters aren't at .5 adults per acre.
If LSC was opened to spearing it would only be part of the concession of all water open to pike but a 100% closure to muskellunge spearing.
"Mayhem" said:
Yes Chris we would prolly not get anywhere trying to get spearing bans on those waters where pike spearing already exists. But if your asking me to support taking away the spearing bans on lakes like Murray and Budd and allowing pike spearing there that's really tough for me to support. I think we all know that's going to damage those lakes and for what? There are thousands of lakes where pike are available and spearing is legal, I don't think having a handful of lakes closed to all spearing to provide a decent muskie fishery is too much to ask.
Giving up a handful of lakes for the greater good of a statewide ban on muskellunge spearing is a trade we should all be very willing to accept. The status quo of little stocked water protected and truly special natural water unprotected is possibly the worst management decision ever.
Yeah I guess I was thinking about this as an overall stance on spearing and not as just the current lakes that are closed. I agree that opening currently closed lakes to N.Pike would most likely end tragically for Muskies. It's just hard for me to justify the argument based on anticipated poaching. With that being said I absolutely do not want to see any of these lake lifted even for Northern Pike.
"Will Schultz" said:
Giving up a handful of lakes for the greater good of a statewide ban on muskellunge spearing is a trade we should all be very willing to accept. The status quo of little stocked water protected and truly special natural water unprotected is possibly the worst management decision ever.
Makes sense when you put it this way!
Giving up a handful of lakes for the greater good of a statewide ban on muskellunge spearing is a trade we should all be very willing to accept. The status quo of little stocked water protected and truly special natural water unprotected is possibly the worst management decision ever.
I wish I could organize my thoughts like this. Very good point and kind of what I was trying to get at.
"Will Schultz" said:
Giving up a handful of lakes for the greater good of a statewide ban on muskellunge spearing is a trade we should all be very willing to accept. The status quo of little stocked water protected and truly special natural water unprotected is possibly the worst management decision ever.
This is my thoughts exactly. As for pike spearing I think the only lake they would truly gain would be LSC, all others would end up under the umbrella of protection from restoration or lack of fish density. We would be extremely foolish though to not include the brood stock lakes with a permanent ban. It seems like a foregone conclusion but as soon as you don'r put it in writing things get sketchy.
"Will Schultz" said:
Giving up a handful of lakes for the greater good of a statewide ban on muskellunge spearing is a trade we should all be very willing to accept. The status quo of little stocked water protected and truly special natural water unprotected is possibly the worst management decision ever.
If lifting the pike spearing ban on our currently stocked muskie lakes and LSC will get the Antrim/Indian chains fully protected from muskie spearing, I think its a no-brainer for MMA to support a decision like that. Is a trade off like this actually something that is on the table?
Only problem is that I would hate to support removing the current spearing bans in place without getting something like that in return though.
"Mayhem" said:
I just don't want to concede spearing bans unless ZERO muskie spearing anywhere (legally that is) is the end result.
That is the ONLY way MMA or any muskie angler should/would support any expansion in spearing.
"MattG_braith" said:
[quote="Will Schultz"]There is a push for expansion once again to open the 30 lakes currently closed and also St Clair.
Will, when you say there is a push for expansion, are you talking about expansion for just pike spearing or muskie spearing as well?
Opening the remaining banned muskellunge waters as well as opening LSC is what they really want. Basically, they want to be able to spear everywhere. We gave up some waters without much of a fight the last time the lakes were reviewed, that's not going to happen this time. The only way I'm willing to tolerate any expansion in spearing is to give them all waters for pike in exchange for a complete ban on muskellunge (following the lead of all other states and provinces).
I've avoided this topic for many years but they won't leave it alone and I'm sick of it. In the past I haven't been willing to let this become a sportsman v. sportsman battle and haven't wanted my name and MMA dragged through the mud again. This time around all bets are off, if we have to go to sport shows and get people to sign a petition against muskellunge spearing then that's what we'll do. If we have to have pictures of dead muskies on the end of spears to get our point across, that's what we'll do. I'm tired of this guy thinking he's speaking for all anglers and that spearing muskies is somehow acceptable because it's "tradition".
Completely agree Will. I think the best statement for MMA to make would revolve around this one:
– MMA supports allowing spearing on all waters for N. Pike with a 100% closure on Muskellunge spearing.
Obviously with added supporting data mixed in on why muskies spearing should be banned.
I think it would be a good idea to get the pike spearers on our side. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think a good portion of the dark house community just wants to spear pike for food and many have no interest in muskie spearing. It might benefit us to get those guys on our side. If we give them pike spearing everywhere, they might agree to closing muskie spearing everywhere. It sucks that the few vocal dark house guys are do dead set on spearing muskies and make enough noise about it to get the rest of them on their side.
While I am obviously all for the ban of spearing on muskellunge, I am still a little uncomfortable with it being at the expense of northern pike (which I am very fond of, though I know not all in the club share those sentiments). If research shows this will not have a strongly adverse affect on pike populations, I could be on board with this.
Will, I admire you for standing and fighting at the expense of "dragging your name, and MMA through the mud." Further, if getting dirty is what it takes to improve our resource, I 100% support fighting for what is right. "Preservation" is a key cornerstone of our organization, and science is on our side. I will be glad to help, whether it is sending emails, or getting petition sign ups.
One of my thoughts "MMA supports the protection of fish staging in spawning locations when they are more vulnerable to a higher rate of exploitation" While this applies to hardwater it also applies to some open water scenarios (Torch River in May/June comes to mind).
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