Cuts will hurt more than fee hikes
The collection of ideologues now serving in the Michigan Legislature is threatening to gut the Department of Natural Resources budget so severely that an already-undermanned force of conservation officers will be cut by 14 (10%), and 37 parks will have to be shut down in what is probably the best state park system in the country.
They're afraid to increase fees for hunting and fishing licenses and approve money to fund the state parks. That's crazy, because hunting, fishing and the state parks are among the things that are nearest and dearest to Michigan voters, who will not be happy with those legislators.
The DNR has cut its spending by $20 million past two years, but it still faces a deficit of $2.5 million next year and $13 million by 2009.
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It is crazy because most people I know would gladly pay the extra money to get the D.N.R. Back on its feet. Closing state parks is cutting off revenue . All cowards all of them, both sides of the Isle. There is nothing worse than a politition. I wish the D.N.R. could just secede from the government and become an independant enity. Im telling you all, if you want to see something screwed up put it in the hands of government. The less they control the better. We need new leaders who can put a stop to this at both the state and Federal levels . We need Ron Paul for president and someone like him as governor. Someone who will put the U.S. first and Michigan first here at home.
My friends , we have taken the brunt of Globalization here in Michigan. Almost our entire Auto industry has left our state and moved to off shore plants where they have no restrictions and slave labor wages. Company after cpmpany continues to leave America because they can make trillions of dollars in these get rich quick deals. We can thank the Bush and Clinton Families for this. Nafta, Gatt, Now the looming Cafta agreement. If you think either party is clean think again. There are a few like Congressman Ron Paul who favor returning to the Constitution and withdrawing from these trade agreements or at the very least forcing companies through tariffs to match our wages. Paul is not really a Republican but a Libertarian. I urge all you Michigan Democrats to vote for Ron Paul in the Republican primaries. Your vote for a Democrat wont count anyway as the state has already been given to Hillary Clinton. The other Democrat candidates withdrew their names from the primary ballot. The dems delagates go to Hillary no matter who you vote for. If I were still a Democrat I would be absolutely livid over this. We need change both state and federal. Kingfisher
Holy smoke… I go away for a couple days and it turns into Hannity and Colmes around here.
This isn't a Rep v. Dem issue at all, this is Sportsmen against the BS that goes on in Lansing. Complaining here about who's to blame isn't doing anything. Call or e-mail your legislators and let them know that you are a sportsman that supports the license increase!!
Who care's who is to blame currently or in the past?
This is what my local JOE SchMOE had to say aboutt he DNR..
I just got this in an email today.
As the month end approaches, I want to bring you up to date on what’s happening with the state budget in Lansing. With a shutdown averted last month, many residents believed a final budget was in place. Not True.
Taxes were raised, the prior year’s budget was extended for one month, and a promise was made to make $440 million in cuts before we passed final budgets for all state departments.
October 31st is the deadline to make this happen.
Is progress being made to meet the October 31st deadline and get budgets in place? Yes. But my issue with the $440 million in “cuts” is that they are being accomplished by taking out new programs instead of reducing state spending.
The Governor had wanted $196 million for new all day pre-school for some – that’s off the table now and included in the so-called cuts. And… they still want to discuss a proposal to increase hunting and fishing fees, which doesn’t sound like very much like a cut to me. (More on hunting and fishing fees below.)
“No new spending” should be a given in this economy, but there’s more to it. We need to fix our true structural spending problem, not just eliminate new programs. We should be giving the taxpayers REAL cuts – – real spending reductions. And, I’ll say it again – it can be done rather painlessly.
It goes back to my Two-Penny Plan – – we begin by cutting two cents from every dollar we spend on our state departments. It’s much more compassionate to trim 2% from the top of every bureau in Lansing than to propose cutting half of our funding for libraries, or even 6.25% from indigent healthcare proposed earlier this year. We don’t need to pull the ax out of the chopping block; all we need is a scalpel to scrape the surface.
It bothers me greatly that our front line teachers, police and firefighters consistently face layoff threats when we have nearly 2500 state employees who earn over $80,000, with salaries going as high as $162,000. Why are troopers, conservation officers and teachers under attack when every one of us should share this burden equally?
Think about it… this administration laid off 29 troopers last spring. At the very same time, candidates who ran for elected office, and lost, were just settling into newly created positions appointed by the Governor. Trooper’s unions were paying out cash from their own reserves to protect their members, while new appointees were snuggling into their cozy $85,000 per year, plus benefits, jobs across the state.
The Real Fix
My fix, of course, begins with the Horn Two Penny Plan: for every dollar we spent last year, we spend 98 cents this year. Both pennies need to come out of the very top of the bureaucracy, with no threats to frontline services as we’ve experienced already this year. Again, if two pennies isn’t too much to tax my constituents, then it can’t be too much to save on their behalf.
And, yes… I recognize the difference between the general fund, restricted spending, and the federal dollars Michigan receives. But, Lansing’s stubborn bureaucratic groupthink is strangling this state’s economy. A decline in the auto industry isn’t the only thing that is causing our state to be dead last in our nation’s economic recovery. Finger-pointing to previous administrations and Washington D.C. isn’t required of the 40 some states that are trying to figure out what to do with their budget surpluses this year.
o The two penny plan would require tough leadership, but would save this state an estimated $900 million per year. Plenty enough to repeal the new sales tax on services.
o Once the budget is stable, the state needs to revise its employee pay-grade system. I have a benchmark study on my desk showing that Michigan ranks number one in the speed in which an employee goes from starting pay to the top of the pay scale. This causes our administrative budgets to be extremely top heavy. The rate of rising to the very top needs to better reflect the current economic job climate.
o Once we make these changes for new employees, the state needs to be extraordinarily creative in offering early out incentives to our dedicated employees. Early retirements, and cash buyouts of long and expensive contracts, need to be considered again.
o Organizational charts need to be dramatically revised and permanently changed to reflect our modern government. The administration points out that it is down to 52,000 employees, however, the 2008 budget has money set aside for 57,000 state employees. We need to redistribute the dollars set aside for these 5,000 unfilled positions and use current resources to get the work done.
o Privatize more services, rather than compete for top talent with private sector. While some services need to remain in the hands of state government, others might be better served in the hands of the experts outside of our steep bureaucracy. As I said before, we have nearly 2,500 hundred employees that earn $80k plus benefits, with many at $100k plus. We pay these people top dollar and say we are “competing with wage scales in the private sector”, and then demean the private sector as not being a viable option for government services.
The bottom line is that this government should be lean and nimble – ready to respond appropriately to any new economic change. And, you’ve heard me tout the following list of what is needed for a stable recovery in Michigan:
o A modest and understandable corporate tax rate
o Reasonable pension and healthcare reform
o Inexpensive and reliable electric energy
o Tort reform
o Most importantly for our state today; Regulatory reform – a taming of the people’s government
So, while I’m confident we will get a completed budget in time for your Trick or Treaters, I won’t be touting the $400 million in cuts. . . not until we really reduce our spending. We, as a state have so much work to do. It will be good to get this ugly budget mess behind us.
Sales Tax On Services
I let you know in an earlier newsletter that I opposed this tax for numerous reasons – one I mentioned above (we needed to reduce spending first!), another is because it picked winners and losers in private sector with no justification for how they were chosen, and finally I opposed the process by which the list was decided (behind closed doors with no academic contribution or public vetting).
I knew it was bad. I just didn’t know quite how bad until I started hearing from business owners in my district. Imagine this very real example: You just moved back to Saginaw to live near your family. You can live anywhere because you work from the computer in your home. In fact, you work for a high-tech company, consulting and storing information on disks and tape for your company’s clients in another country. Suddenly, your work is subject to the 6% Michigan Sales Tax – – only if you work in Michigan, and your company isn’t so happy. In fact, they want you to relocate to another state where you aren’t taxed.
How many companies and people will Michigan lose to other states where they don’t have to pay sales tax? Folks… this isn’t about big business trying to avoid a bizarre Michigan tax, this is about national and international companies that we are competing with other states that don’t apply sales tax.
And, lest you think that this is all about big corporate greed, or the fact the struggling manufacturers are getting hit the hardest with a ‘service’ tax, just think about these examples: a retired couple who operate a small tour service for seniors, and the single mom who opens a hair salon in a blighted urban core.
This tax is an attack on the small budding entrepreneurial class, willing to work hard, but with very little capital for business start ups. This new sales tax on services is not only onerous, but frightening in the face of today’s economy in Michigan. And, it flies in the face of the very American Dream that brought both my parents and my grandparents to this country.
With or without a replacement, this tax must be repealed. Now!
Hunting and Fishing Fees
In and recent mailer to my district, I promised that I would oppose particularly high hunting and fishing fee increases being proposed. While not scientific, responses were eight to one in favor of leaving fees where they were.
Here’s the set up: Department of Natural Resources (DNR) wants higher fees to pay for conservation officers and state parks. It is a simple notion and most of my constituents would not have a problem with fees going up a few bucks, if the money goes toward the enhancement or promotion of hunting and fishing.
Now here’s the problem as I see it: every time Lansing raises licenses and fees, it withdraws general fund contributions. In my opinion, if the people of the state of Michigan want money to go to the parks system, then we as legislators need to set state park funding as a priority.
In an interesting article by Eric Sharp of the Detroit Free Press, he writes that people wouldn’t mind hunting fees going up to pay for our parks, but that individual daily park fees are too high. What??? Hunters and anglers shouldn’t foot the bill for everyone who uses the parks.
He also writes that not enough people are going to state parks, choosing instead to go to the malls, shopping instead. Sharp writes, “It’s sad, but many Americans now consider outdoor recreation a trip to the mall…” He goes on, “Without contact [to our parks] they can’t understand the value of the natural world and why we need to protect what’s left of it.”
To paraphrase Yogi Berra; if nobody wants to visit our state park system anymore…who’s gonna stop ’em?
What in the world makes anyone think that tripling and quadrupling hunting and fishing fees is going to turn people away from shopping centers and into state parks?
And… to make matters worse, deer hunting license sales are down 33% from ten years ago. In my Tourism and Natural Resources Sub-committee, I asked the question, “What is the DNR doing to increase the number of hunters in the state of Michigan?” The answer certainly can’t be to simply raise fees. No business could regain a 33% loss of its customer base by raising its prices.
Here we go again with the threats. This month, instead of threatening the layoffs of teachers and state troopers, it’s conservation officers and the closing of parks, and frankly I’m sick of the attempted intimidation of Michigan taxpayers.
Once again, there are 48 people at the top of the DNR pay scale making $80,000 plus benefits. Twelve of these department heads make $100k+. Before they lay off fourteen front line conservation officers and close 37 parks, the organization needs a true top-down shake up. We all need to share equally in our down times.
When I’m convinced we’ve truly cut to the bone in the DNR, and we know for certain that hunting and fishing fees go to support hunting and fishing, I would be willing to consider fair and modest increases in hunting and fishing fees. It’s as simple as that.
As always, if you have questions or concerns, please feel to contact me at: 866-HORN-094 or ** you do not have permission to see this link **.
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On this License increase. I did some fishing in Maryland. And they charge the same cost that your home state charges for non residents license. $21.00 for a 3 day fishing license just becuse I'm from Michigan. One of the guys I was fishing with was from VA. $7.00 for his license. The sales guy told me that Michigan is one of the more costly states for non residents licenses. I think Michigan charges to much for a license. We need to find a better way to fund the DNR here. Not put it on the backs of the sportsman. Or we may just end up like the people in europe. Just my 2 cents.
LeMay OUT
"LeMay" said:
On this License increase. I did some fishing in Maryland. And they charge the same cost that your home state charges for non residents license. $21.00 for a 3 day fishing license just becuse I'm from Michigan. One of the guys I was fishing with was from VA. $7.00 for his license. The sales guy told me that Michigan is one of the more costly states for non residents licenses. I think Michigan charges to much for a license. We need to find a better way to fund the DNR here. Not put it on the backs of the sportsman. Or we may just end up like the people in europe. Just my 2 cents.LeMay OUT
First off, you can't compare Michigan to Virginia. Michigan is about three times the size with ten times the resources to deal with.
Actually… I think we're pretty close with the increase to most states, if I remember right from the research that was done. I also know that we're not the only state in need of a license increase. I know Colorado is going to be increasing their license costs. The problem is that our license fees didn't keep up with inflation.
Are you honestly expecting the DNR to operate with license revenue that didn't keep up with inflation? WE use the resource and WE should be responsible for maintaining the resource through our license fees.
Here's the license package proposed:
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Part of this also, I believe, is that our society is changing and the "all outdoors" person is becoming rare. I used to hunt everything, ducks, geese, upland birds, deer, turkey… PLUS fish for summer run salmon, steelhead in winter, walleye in spring and muskie all year. Now it is rare that I buy a combo deer license I'll only buy one usually. Small game? A couple times in the past ten years since I don't hunt upland or waterfowl anymore. Because the cost to play (not including the license) is much higher that it was 15 years ago I think we're seeing more and more specialty anglers/hunters.
Since I became lost in musky slime I have kind of lost interest in other sports such as Deer hunting. Like I said earlier in this post. My self and all the family members in my area and circle support the increases. Your statement about this being Sportsman against polititions is correct. We are seeing politics as usual on this issue. The good of the state is pushed aside so one side can gain leverage going into the coming elections. While the other side refuses to cut new social programs. So we get dead lock. Its a shame . It is politics and politics suck.
Any way can we be heard as a group? My congress woman doesnt even answer my emails on these issues. No one wants to be the one to step up and say lets raise the rates. I read most of the plan and it looks like a couple of things could be added. How about a 25 dollar musky kill tag coupled with a 1 fish per year limit? How about launch fees at state owned boat ramps of $2.00 per day OR A YEARLY STICKER TO USE THEM ALL FOR LIKE $35.00. How about increasing the fines of poachers and violators to double what they are now and putting those funds into the D.N.R. . I think the boat launch fees would be the fairest form of use tax so to speak because both pleasure and sport craft use these launches. Toilets have to be cleaned and such. There needs to be revenue generated at these facilities. My 2 cents. Mike
In regards to comparing fishing licenses prices in Michigan to other states you must first compare those respective fisheries.
No offense, but Maryland and Virginia combined do not offer half of the fishing opportunities that MI offers. In fact I would argue only one state in the US offers better overall fishing, Alaska.
I've lived in Connecticut, Arizona, Wyoming, Montana, Washington and Oregon and none of those states compare to the opportunities we have here in MI. Sure, Montana and Wyoming have excellent trout fisheries. But can you limit out on Chinook one day and perch the next??? Yes, Oregon and Washington have awesome salmon, steelhead, bass, and sturgeon fishing. But so does Michigan, and by the way, resident fishing licenses in WA and OR are $65 for all species!!!
My point is, species for species, opportunity for opportunity, Michigan is hard to beat, period.
The DNR needs more revenue in the Game and Fund or programs are going to be cut. If your representatives won't email back, call them, or better yet stop by. Make them look at a map and ask them what's the first thing they see when they look at Michigan? Water!
Wow, I feel better, thanks.
…………. as an out-of-state person that fish and hunts in Michigan (my home state) I'm against the fee hikes. I know the club has reasons to support them but here's my three best points against:
1 – There is no logic in this statement, "we aren't selling enough licenses, so we'll sell more by making them more expensive." The fee increases, especially on hunting licenses, will dramatically drop the number of non-resident sportsmen buying licenses and will drop the DNR collections from non-residents, not increase it. You might make it up in resident fee hikes but that remains to be seen. Even doing this for a short period of time will results in non-residents moving their sporting activities to other states, you may never get those guys back.
The increases are NOT just a couple of dollars for the non-residents. With the fee hikes I'd spend over $300 in licenses to take my kid up north, to hunt public land with a 30-1 doe/buck ratio. I've been going up for twenty years and we backed out this year because of chaos about what the fees would be.
2 – For every extra buck you might gain in fees you'll lose tourism dollars to local businesses from the non-residents that stop coming. Michigan will lose about $1200 this year because I'm not bringing my crew.
3 – This plan will not save the DNR. The DNR needs to receive state dollars, as it did in the past, to be viable in the long term. Funding 90% of it on fees will fail. The state of Michigan has to accept the need to fund the DNR correctly, or shut it down and lose the benefits of having a DNR, park system, etc…..
Heavyhound,
To your points:
1. Here's a hypothetical with a current license price of $28
1.8 million anglers x $28 = $50.4 million
raising prices from 28 to $33
1.8 mil anglers x 33 = $59.4 million
Difference of 9 million dollars
9 mil /33 = 272727 anglers
Do you really think the State of Mi will lose 272,727 anglers for a measly $5 increase? I would hope not.
2. We're talking about fishing, not hunting. The two packages are separate in the Legislature. It would only be a few more dollars if there was a fishing license price increase. If you chose to not bring your crew that is unfortunate and I'm sorry you think raising the prices forces you to stay home. I think you should compare MI license prices to states that have similar fisheries such as Wisconsin (which really isn't that similar, in fact there aren't other states with the opportunities that MI offers) and then rethink.
3. I agree the DNR needs more general funds WITH a fishing license price increase of some sort.
Hound, I dont support raising non resident rates on anything. Its tourism that we need here. I mentioned some other things like the D.N.R. boat launches which are currently free. Both Pleasure and sport craft have to use these all over the state. Just a couple bucks per day would generate some serious cash state wide. I am against anything that would stop you from coming up here to hunt and fish. I am not against paying another 10 bucks per year for my license as long as it goes to The D.N.R. and not into the general fund. With its hand cut off from the cookie jar the state doesnt like the situation because its a one way street. This is where much of the fight has been (where is the D.N.R. funding coming from? ) The state can no longer raid the trust fund so in response it seems they have cut off the general funds that were once available to the D.N.R.. I may be wrong but that is what I am seeing. State parks produce revenue so they need to stay open. I think moderate increases OF PARK fees around the board and moderate cuts at the top would be the right way to move forward. We need our Conservation officers on the job and our parks open. We need to encourage people to come here and spend money. The stocking of Salmon is much more important to me now ha ha ha . Without it my area dies a slow death. The lakeshore depends on this fishery to keep the motels and campgrounds running,food,tackle, gas, etc etc etc. It is going to be a tough road until its over. Kingfisher
The math used in the example above fails to capture the whole picture.
– The DNR reports that fishing and hunting sales have declined between 13% and 18% over the last couple decades. This trend does not appear to be stopping. You risk accelerating this problem with a fee hike. The DNR position seems to be that this won't happen. Is this based on some objective research or just wishful thinking? If fee hikes are the only way to fund the DNR then these rate hikes will have to be repeated very soon as the numbers of sportsmen/women continue to slide and you'll lose even more sportsmen/women.
– Non-resident all species fees are proposed to go from $42 to $80 (hunting fees are worse). If 10,000 non-res anglers dropped out you would lose $420,000 only in license fees. Most non-residents spend several times the license fee amount in food, lodging, gas, bait etc…. lets assume for each angler lost you lose $300. That's $3,000,000 that would have gone to Michigan businesses and sales tax revenue. Anyone is free to dispute my estimated numbers, I admit they're guesses; I'd just like to point out that the DNR seems to be guessing as well.
– Losing hunters and anglers has a cascade effect because they don't teach their kids to hunt and fish in Michigan. Ten years from now, as the angling hunting numbers plummet from this effect, they may wish they had thought more about the long term consequences.
With all that said, we will probably keep fishing Michigan because we are able to get several months of use out of a license . I doubt the DNR can bank on most non-res anglers doing the same. Several of my friends down here will not. They came up a few times per year and regardless of the quality of the fisheries they don't feel $80 is justified.
The hunting situation will be worse. That's the crew that I'm not bringing. There seems to a position out there that anyone that doesn't want to pay "a few extra bucks" is being petty. For many of us hunting was already an expensive hobby and the increases are the straw that broke the camel's back. Hunting opportunites in nearby states equal or surpass the opportuinities on public land in Michigan.
Finally, I'm not some anti-DNR nut, I just feel like this plan is short sited.
I spent a day at a DNR meeting in Lansing, 10/30, followed by the Native American treaty education meeting at Walker on the way home. Both meetings confirmed that the National NRA is the #1 reason for the failure of the DNR funding. Since our Lansing meeting was held at the MUCC office, I said hi to Dennis Muchmore. He is flying out today to Washington to meet with the NRA. The NRA's DNR funding sabotage was also brought out at our Michigan Charterboat 10/20 meeting in Ludington. It was noted yesterday that the NRA is only targeting Michigan as dirty politics to help their right-wing Republicans in 2008. The NRA is willing to sabotage the Michigan DNR funding today (blame the Democrats) for long term future right-wing politics. The NRA's plan is to claim they don't want to raise hunting fees to not lose anymore hunters. That is a red herring lie! The NRA is not claiming any of that in any of the other states that are raising their fees, only Michigan, because it is presently a blue state! The Michigan DNR is damn mad! They had a permanent long term funding plan ready to submit by October and the NRA politicians deliberately sabotaged the DNR's plan. The NRA hypocrites don't give a damn about the future welfare of wildlife management in Michigan as they are pure #1 priority 'gun nuts' and absolutely nothing else matters.
Yet again Tom, it is our fault for giving any power to control the natural resources of this state to the legislators. Well funded lobbying groups will always own government, that will never change. Lawmakers who have no background in biology and can't spell Goby, Zebra Mussel or VHSv shouldn't have any power in making funding decisions for the DNR let alone have control over seasons and bag limits. We the people have enough power to influence our legislature. The problem is that I don't hear MUCC talking about this on their TV show, I don't hear any other group trying to get their members to talk to their legislator about the new license fees.
MUCC isn't talking about it on their TV show due to internal embarrassment situation. MUCC is split right now between the "Sportsmen for Bush" NRA factions and those clubs that care about environmental fish/wildlife habitat DNR funding. That is what a MUCC statewide VP, outdoor writer, and myself were discussing at the Walker meeting. Dennis Muchmore (MUCC Director) is a lifetime member of the NRA, so we'll see what he does in Washington today meeting with the NRA.
"Hamilton Reef" said:
MUCC is split right now between the "Sportsmen for Bush" NRA factions and those clubs that care about environmental fish/wildlife habitat DNR funding.
You're honsetly saying an NRA member and/or a Republican can't care about environmental fish/wildlife habitat DNR funding? That is exactly the type of statement that has us sitting right where we are. You can be both! I may not always agree with the things the NRA does or the things that the Republican party does just as I'm certain you probably don't always agree with the things that the Democratic party does.
In some cases you need to know when to do the right thing regardless of where it lands you socially or politically. All I'm saying is do the right thing to those in MUCC, you have power with that TV show – Use it!
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