"swanezy" said:
Who determined these MSL that are proposed?

Also what does L-Infinity mean?

This was the growth model they used:
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It is a well received (evidenced by the length of time it has been in use) method of determining max size structure in pretty much all fish, without needing a ton of variables.

L-infinity is the max length (L) if a fish lived forever.

Each biologist for each basin management unit proposed their own MSL, or at least had the majority say for each of their musky waters.

The discrepancy between model MSL, and proposed MSL will probably be a topic of much debate at the Conversations and Coffee with the DNR meetings! A bit of another example of them saying, "here is how we are going to determine what we 'should' do, but we aren't going to follow it anyway"….

"swanezy" said:
So L infinity for thorn and Murray is 48.5? Maybe I'm not interpreting it correctly. But why would that be when both those lakes have plenty of fish over 48.

Also the guy who determined 38 inches for round is a joke, when a lake like osterhout stays at 42….

And labeling the lake for low growth potential makes me feel like they haven't seen many fish out of Diane or round.

Unless that has a different definition than what i am perceiving

The only way it can be perceived (in my view anyhow) is that it is intentional, in an attempt to not piss off the harvest crowd…

The PC answer is, L-infinity was determined by combining sexes. We all know males don't grow nearly as large as females. But again, they seem to like to combine them for no other reason than to not have to deal with data that makes them make a tough decision. So, basically, yes there are 52" females in Murray, but the max size of the males is probably only 42-44… hence average L-infinty = 48.5. Obviously fish stop growing after they hit their early to mid teens, at least in significant amounts, and perhaps get shorter.

The only justification for 38" in a stocked lake IMO is that they just don't want them there anymore, and the only way to get some males out is by lowering the MSL to a point where all males will eventually be able to be harvested. Being as they aren't raising northern strains anymore, maybe they don't care to maintain northern strain waters??? Also not a great decision for us, but who knows. Diane… your guess is as good as anyones? They are obviously not using it as a broodstock lake, and it was stocked at a rate consistent to brood lakes for a couple years. It seems like the better move, if they were transferring fish from Hudson and Thorn, is to do the same for Diane. Maybe their idea for reducing the population to a "normal" stocked lake is by lowering the MSL… Again, I'm grasping at straws trying to come up with a justifiable train of thought. It is yet another case where they have a model they are "going to follow", but then ignore the info the model gives them when it isn't convenient.

I apologize for the extreme pessimism. I do think that if we give them enough to think about, and show widespread support that they will make the right (or more correct) decision on proper management. But, this stuff was posted because it was presented at the banquet in an attempt to get us to these stinking meetings! They have the info right in front of them to make proper management decisions… WE HAVE TO MAKE THEM DO IT [smilie=bud.gif] [smilie=bud.gif] [smilie=bud.gif] [smilie=bud.gif] [smilie=bud.gif] [smilie=bud.gif]

"swanezy" said:
I agree that they may just want to slowly get rid of fish on some of these lakes.. it is just disappointing..

I also know a few lakes that are no longer stocked have some natural reproduction which is nice to see so they could have muskies for a long time potentially.

I understand we are moving forward with the great lake strain, but would be nice to still have options like Wisconsin and Minnesota have in some areas where you can choose to fish 20-30 lakes within an hour for most people.

One good thing about the GLS program is our continued trade with other states for Northern strain fish, which normally get put in the UP, or other stocked lakes that have no passable outlet…

Other than that, until we can protect what we have [smilie=dead.gif] , and Verlander and Cabrera donate this years salary to the hatchery, and Jim TenHaff donates all the labor to pour new ponds, etc… Our production of 30,000 fingerlings a year isn't going to make your dreams happen, even if you outlive Methuselah [smilie=grandpa.gif]