If this CIR all year season is put into place I think a good trade off would be to make the harvest seasons more restrictive during spawning seasons. Again, my comments are mostly directed towards bass here, but if CIR was extended all year long I would like to see the harvest season pushed back at least another 2 weeks or more to allow fish to finish spawning. I just never thought this would ever be an option because it has always been tradition for bass opener to be on Memorial Day weekend and the only people who would ever support something like this is catch and release anglers anyways which there seems to be very few of out there…
"MattG_braith" said:
[quote="Will Schultz"]Tell me more… What fish and why?
Specifically smallmouth bass in our northern lakes and northern pike in our southern river systems.
The smallmouth in the northern lakes currently have zero spawning protection while nesting under current regulations. If angling is going to make an impact on numbers it's going to be during this time and not catching them before the season is open. If we were going to do something smart with smallmouth we would have open season(including harvest) most of the year but close the season from the end of May until the end of July. It makes perfect biological sense to protect the fish while nesting and also during the hottest water of the year to avoid tournament mortality. However, the bass seasons will always be together in Michigan and it's unlikely the current harvest seasons will ever change.
"Will Schultz" said:
The smallmouth in the northern lakes currently have zero spawning protection while nesting under current regulations. If angling is going to make an impact on numbers it's going to be during this time and not catching them before the season is open. If we were going to do something smart with smallmouth we would have open season(including harvest) most of the year but close the season from the end of May until the end of July. It makes perfect biological sense to protect the fish while nesting and also during the hottest water of the year to avoid tournament mortality. However, the bass seasons will always be together in Michigan and it's unlikely the current harvest seasons will ever change.
I guess most of my frustrations come from the harvest season and not the CIR season and I know you are right when you say Michigan is unlikely to ever change the harvest season on bass. It just bothers me to see people catch and keep smallmouth illegally in mid-May and I wouldnt want the seasons extended to allow them to do that even more. Better enforcement of the current laws would be nice…
Very good points on both sides but all in all my position is to not support the year-round CIR, in no small part due to even more unabated pike abuse more than an impact on muskie. They rely solely on natural reproduction in Michigan, a 45-day break or so still leaves us a mere 320 days to catch them, and kill them as is the case with many who pursue them on purpose or catch them by accident.
Letting both species get hammered more during the spawning season, even if the closure is not always timed right since it varies so widely, just makes matters worse. With fish more concentrated in places that capable anglers know well, and little enforcement available, I don't see most anglers releasing that larger female pike if she comes along, or even just the commonly poor handling of larger stressed pike or muskies released during that time doesn't seem like it'd help matters.
We can say there is no biological evidence of this harm I guess, but we can also say there is no biological evidence that it doesn't harm them either. It seems to just stand to reason that a fish already stressed by spawning rigors then fighting its best when caught and released, would have higher mortality upon release. Throw in erratic early season warm spells or other extra stress…well I could ramble on but they simply have enough pressure already on them the other 320 days a year. Let's give 'em a short break, erring toward cuation and fishing for something else the other 45 days.
Besides, I selfishly like a closed season for at least a while so the muskies are little dumber for a couple weeks out of the year, giving at least this dumb angler a slightly better chance at catching one.
"Will Schultz" said:
What if the biology says allowing fishing has no impact on the species overall?
Then I guess I would probably be all for it. I was basing my first answer off of information that I had gathered in previous years.
"Will Schultz" said:
3. Is it safe to fish muskies right now?
When they're spawning they are harder to catch which means catching a spawning fish shouldn't be likely. However, catching a pre-spawn fish could cause her to dump eggs during and after the fight with no male around to fertilize the eggs. The best thing (in my opinion) is to stay out of known spawning areas while the fish are spawning. Careful handling and no time (or very limited) out of the water is important if you happen to catch a big fish.
Because of the above statement, I would be afraid for the muskies north of M-55. We had this in one of our proposed regs a little while back – no closed season for muskies south of M-55. This, I would be all for. There is no point in protecting a spawning fish that is just "going through the motions." But, then we aren't going to be making the regs any easier to follow. Just more confusing for the illiterate hillbillies of the north. (No offense, Chris) [smilie=biggrin.gif]
Overall I think I would be against it. I agree with pretty much everything Joe said about the pike. I also think that although muskies in our southern stocked lakes may just "go through the motions" this still must take a lot out of them. Look at how beat up some of the males are in early season, this must be a pretty stressful time for the fish, but maybe I'm wrong. I just think giving them a little bit of a break during this time is probably the right move. The season is long enough and there's tons of other great outdoor activities to enjoy at that time as it is.
For bass I don't see it as a big deal. The closed season right now as it is doesn't even cover the spawning season. The guys that would use this just as an excuse to poach would still poach anyways. If they have no respect for the laws now changing them isn't going to change that.
Against. For the same reasons as Kingfisher.
Excluding a few select groups (musky fisherman, and avid bass fisherman) I put almost zero faith in our peers to maintain practices beneficial to the resource.
An open catch and release season would only allow more opportunity for the catch and kill crowd to weasel fish home.
I might call my support 60% for Musky seasons open for CIR, but that is because of the mentioned practices of musky fisherman. The 40% of my thinking opposing it is for all the guys who don't place importance on C/R.
I think you would have an issue where guys decide:I've been fishing for a legal all this time, and I finally caught one….I think I'll just keep it even though it is CIR season.
"pikerule2" said:
Very good points on both sides but all in all my position is to not support the year-round CIR, in no small part due to even more unabated pike abuse more than an impact on muskie. They rely solely on natural reproduction in Michigan, a 45-day break or so still leaves us a mere 320 days to catch them, and kill them as is the case with many who pursue them on purpose or catch them by accident.Letting both species get hammered more during the spawning season, even if the closure is not always timed right since it varies so widely, just makes matters worse. With fish more concentrated in places that capable anglers know well, and little enforcement available, I don't see most anglers releasing that larger female pike if she comes along, or even just the commonly poor handling of larger stressed pike or muskies released during that time doesn't seem like it'd help matters.
We can say there is no biological evidence of this harm I guess, but we can also say there is no biological evidence that it doesn't harm them either. It seems to just stand to reason that a fish already stressed by spawning rigors then fighting its best when caught and released, would have higher mortality upon release. Throw in erratic early season warm spells or other extra stress…well I could ramble on but they simply have enough pressure already on them the other 320 days a year. Let's give 'em a short break, erring toward cuation and fishing for something else the other 45 days.
Besides, I selfishly like a closed season for at least a while so the muskies are little dumber for a couple weeks out of the year, giving at least this dumb angler a slightly better chance at catching one.
I'm a little surprised at these comments, I wasn't anticipating opposition where pike are concerned.
"Jim tenHaaf" said:
[quote="Will Schultz"]
What if the biology says allowing fishing has no impact on the species overall?
Then I guess I would probably be all for it. I was basing my first answer off of information that I had gathered in previous years.
"Will Schultz" said:
3. Is it safe to fish muskies right now?
When they're spawning they are harder to catch which means catching a spawning fish shouldn't be likely. However, catching a pre-spawn fish could cause her to dump eggs during and after the fight with no male around to fertilize the eggs. The best thing (in my opinion) is to stay out of known spawning areas while the fish are spawning. Careful handling and no time (or very limited) out of the water is important if you happen to catch a big fish.
Because of the above statement, I would be afraid for the muskies north of M-55. We had this in one of our proposed regs a little while back – no closed season for muskies south of M-55. This, I would be all for. There is no point in protecting a spawning fish that is just "going through the motions." But, then we aren't going to be making the regs any easier to follow. Just more confusing for the illiterate hillbillies of the north. (No offense, Chris) [smilie=biggrin.gif]
I could see a compromise proposed where CIR for (most) species could be implemented south of a given line. Afterall most anglers are in S. Michigan.
"Esoxonthefly" said:
What about a CIR reg on lakes with little to no reproduction? If spawning isn't an issue than catching muskies should be a problem. Protect lakes with natural reproduction
Very frustrating topic as it seems "we" are the only ones to give a crap about regulations. By "we" I don't necessarily mean our club, but I'm talking about what seems the minority of people who don't fish for whatever, whenever they want.
If it were to change, I agree, protect the natural reproduction lakes. With an even BIGGER closed season if at all possible.
"LonLB" said:
[quote="Mayhem"]I will eat 2 lemons on video and post it on the forums if opening up more catch and release only opportunites causes an increase in poaching.
Why would you be so sure?
How many times have we seen guys targeting fish out of season?
I see guys fishing out of season all the time. I also see very little enforcement of the rules. Unless your killing fish the rules as they are now are basically unenforecable. Even if you get a ticket you can just fight it, they can't prove what you intended to catch in 99% of cases. As for poaching, the people that are gonna hide wallyes in their pants and kill pike and bass in a catch and release season are already doing that, they could care less what the "seasons" are. If anything allowing the "good guys" to be out there fishing should decrease poaching by putting more eyes on the water to spot and call in violators.
There is a lot of talk about protecting fish during the spawn. Is the current system where your still allowed to fish and there is little enforecment of the "attempting to target" aspect of the law really protecting the fish anymore that just allowing people to fish as long as its mandatory catch and release? If you really want a spawning closure that will help there has to be no fishing for any species at all.
Final point there are lots of studies on the impact of catch and release seasons on many different species and the verdict has been pretty consistent that they have little to no impact on fish populations. Who would this really effect in Michigan, bass fisherman would get to fish a few extra weeks. They already can fish when the fish are spawning so thats irrelevant. Wallye and pike pressure won't increase much at all. Who wants to fish wallye if you can't keep any? That leaves us muskie guys, a tiny fraction of the fishing public. Just don't harass actively spawning fish and they will be fine.
"muskaholic" said:
just a dumb comment.. but who keeps bass??? I cant remember the last time I heard of anyone saying they were going bass fishing for dinner. granted there is accidental death with all fishing but seams like a big deal about nothing as far as bass are concerned to me.
I'm always surprised at how many people keep bass to eat and even target bass to eat.
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