Not sure when this happened but just noticed the DNR posted the comments it received on the pike and muskie plans as well as the Final management plans.
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Reading through the comments there are a lot of anti-spearing comments with very few comments in favor of spearing. A lot of people supporting decreased bag limits, C&R emphasis, and higher size limits. Not surprisingly the comments seem overwhelmingly in favor of things the MMA has proposed, so good job everyone. [smilie=2thumbsup.gif].
Seems like a lot pro slot limit comments for pike or at least making changes to promote larger pike in the fishery as well.
Below are the 2 canned comments that the DNR frequently responded with when challenged on why Michigan still allows spearing. It drives me nuts that they basically hide behind "no evidence" as their excuse. In no case was there a response by the DNR that adressed the regulations (no spearing) of other states and canadian provinces even though that was brought up repeatedly in the comments.
"Michigan maintains the opportunity to spear as there is limited
information to suggest that spearing provides more
exploitation than hook and line angling. Certain waters may
require regulations to further protect the population while not
limiting the angling activity."
"Recreational fishing regulations for muskellunge in Michigan
have changed from historic perspectives. As fishing effort and
exploitation have changed overtime so has regulations to
improve angling opportunity. Similarly no biological
information exists to ban spearing at this time, further
improvements to the creel survey program in Michigan may
reveal such evidence. Goal II of the plan calls for adequate
technical information to be collected."
"Mayhem" said:
Below are the 2 canned comments that the DNR frequently responded with when challenged on why Michigan still allows spearing. It drives me nuts that they basically hide behind "no evidence" as their excuse. In no case was there a response by the DNR that adressed the regulations (no spearing) of other states and canadian provinces even though that was brought up repeatedly in the comments."Michigan maintains the opportunity to spear as there is limited
information to suggest that spearing provides more
exploitation than hook and line angling. Certain waters may
require regulations to further protect the population while not
limiting the angling activity.""Recreational fishing regulations for muskellunge in Michigan
have changed from historic perspectives. As fishing effort and
exploitation have changed overtime so has regulations to
improve angling opportunity. Similarly no biological
information exists to ban spearing at this time, further
improvements to the creel survey program in Michigan may
reveal such evidence. Goal II of the plan calls for adequate
technical information to be collected."
That could all change if they did their job doing creel surveys on lakes like Austin. I don't know if they did or did not do any surveys, but I'm sure hoping they did. That lake alone would be enough evidence. If they failed to do so with Austin, then maybe it'll happen with Oster.
Man, Chad! You've got like 5 pages worth in there! HAHAHA. I found mine. Pgs 117-119
Thought this one was an interesting one:
My name is Mike Hammill. I live and work in the Luce County,
Newberry area. I fish muskies hook and line and I dark house
spear muskies. Personally the thought of spearing a Musky
under the size of 42" doesn't intrest me. I personally wouldn't
be opposed to the size limit actually increasing to 45" and
having the opportunity during the Spring/Summer/Fall months
to fish some waters that embrace a spearing ban. With that
being said, I feel not all or most waters should be banned to
spearing (Iron County).
I've had the unique opportunity to speak with many anglers
and spear fisherman. I've checked spear anglers that had
just speared 40" muskies that indicated that they thought for
sure they were around 45"; this created a tough situation
because they cannot put them back. A 45" size limit, along
with one or two lakes per county closed to spearing seems
fair and like a decent way to manage them.
That's it in a nutshell for me. I'll keep spearing muskies in the
winter and I'll keep releasing them in the summer because I
really enjoy doing both. Good luck with the plan and thank
you for your time and consideration.
And I'm guessing this is Mike Holmes':
I felt that even though I sit on the CoolWater Committee, I
should reconfirm Michigan Darkhouse Angling Assn. (MDAA)
position on pike/musky management. First, we, MDAA
oppose any slot limits on Northern Pike and will include the
Upper Peninsula Sportsmen Alliance with their permission.
We question why slot-limits is even an issue when Kelly Smith
stated last May before the Upper Peninsula Sportsmens
Alliance Fisheries Committee, that "slot limits don't work". It's
further interesting that you mention Pierce's slot-limit studies
where he "suggests" success in increased size of N. Pike on
20 lakes in Minnesota when, in fact, he selected only the
successful lakes where range size structure increased. What
this study didn't publish was the fact that the only size
structure increase was on fish between 17"-20" when the
implemented slot limits we 24"-36". In fact the range size
structure within the slot limits (24"-36") actually reduced over
7-20yrs.
In Minnesota, a bill to remove slot limits on 60 lakes of the
120 lakes shackled with slot limits, just passed, with
bipartisan support, the Minnesota House of Representitives
this past week. It has been sent to the Mn. Senate. This bill
is the work of Minnesota fishermen that are tired of slot
regulations and biased DNR fisheries studies. After this bill
passes there will be another bill introduced to reduce the
remaining northern pike slot-limit lakes. Through the efforts of
these fishermen, they have gathered confidential information
from Minnesota field fish managers that suggest there are
only about 10-20 lakes in Minnesota that can possibly grow
trophy pike.
On lakes in Michigan that contain smelt, whitefish, cisco
and herring, which include the Great Lakes, no management
is needed to produce big pike. There should not be an
attempt to lock-up "big water" lakes for the sake of trophy fish.
Goeman in his study stated, "Anglers typically do not remove
enough northern pike to increase growth rates and increase
the proportion of large fish (pike) in the population.
Margenau (1995) "transferred slow-growing fish from high
density northern pike (lake) population to a lake with lower
density (of n. pike) and greater availability of large yellow
perch as forage. Transferred fish grew well and improved in
condition." I have witnessed this managment method on two
occasions with great success. Over-populated, undersized
northern pike were removed from Fire Lake in Iron County on
one and the other was a removal of the same size structure
from Badwater Lake in Dickinson County. Over-populated
pike from Fire Lake were transferred to Fortune Lake and
over-populated pike from Badwater Lake were put in Lake
Antoine near Iron Mountain. Both lakes had over-populated
numbers of small, stunted yellow perch and bluegills. Both
lakes benefited from this action and created healthy numbers
of both large northern pike and increased sizes of bluegills
and yellow perch.
In both of these lakes, no gear restrictions or slot size
hardships were imposed on fishermen.
Our position on musky management is this. Reduce the
size limit for muskies to 32"or 34" statewide. My handouts at
the last Steering Committee meeting explains our position in
detail. We will use these arguments before whoever needs to
hear them.
We have delt with DNR Fisheries Division since 2001.
Your management position on northern pike and musky has
not changed. You pretend all stakeholders have a voice in
shaping the management of northern pike and muskies but in
reality, you do what you want. Director Stokes has repeatedly
expressed his priority on increasing "customer service and
improving hunter and angler recruitment and retention" a
priority. I see nothing of this in your esocid plans. While DNR
Wildlife Division Chief is "bending over backwards" to
increase hunting opportunities and simplify the hunting
experience, fisheries division continues to make fishing more
complicated and confusing to anglers with gear restrictions,
reduced creel limits, stream restrictions, slot-limits and
complicated fish digest material. I don't think DNR Director
Stokes had this in mind. I understand MUCC feels Fisheries
division is going in the wrong direction, also.
When your on the committee and the president of a special interest group I'm not sure how taking pot shots at the DNR helps your cause. He seems desperate to me. As for him and the other guy, yoopers just are wired differently. I spent 4 years up there for undergrad and it seems like the locals are 20-30 years behind the times up there on just about everything.
"Mayhem" said:
When your on the committee and the president of a special interest group I'm not sure how taking pot shots at the DNR helps your cause. He seems desperate to me.
[smilie=sign-yeahthat.gif]
Lets ask for something, then slap the provider in the face and call him an idiot… thanks for helping us out Mr. Darkhouse Guy
Through the efforts of
these fishermen, they have gathered confidential information
from Minnesota field fish managers that suggest there are
only about 10-20 lakes in Minnesota that can possibly grow
trophy pike.
LOL that is total bullshit, i can think of at least 10 lakes just off the top of my head that have trophy pike in them in Minnesota and i don't even live in the fing state
Wonder why Mike isnt talking about this law???
97C.011 MUSKELLUNGE LAKES.
(a) The commissioner may, after preparing a statement of need and reasonableness and holding a public meeting, designate waters with muskellunge as muskellunge waters.
(b) The commissioner may prescribe rules for each designated muskellunge waters that:
(1) restrict spearing from a dark house;
(2) restrict angling from a dark house;
(3) limit the open season to take fish;
(4) limit the size of fish that may be kept; and
(5) limit the number of each species of fish that may be kept.
(c) The commissioner must give notice and hold a hearing before adopting rules under this subdivision. The rules must have a termination date and may only be extended upon a showing by the commissioner, at a hearing, that the muskellunge population in the designated waters has been enhanced.
(d) The provisions of section 97C.385, subdivision 1, requiring the angling season on a lake to be closed in proportion to the spearing season do not apply to designated muskellunge lakes.
(e) The commissioner, in designating a muskellunge water on lakes wholly or partially within an Indian reservation, may not designate a whole lake larger than 29,775 acres in surface area, except that sensitive areas of lakes larger than 29,775 acres may be designated if clause (a) is complied with.
Good reading:
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Mike is kinda referring to this, kinda:
Sec. 55. [97C.007] NORTHERN PIKE EXPERIMENTAL AND SPECIAL
MANAGEMENT WATERS.
The combined number of lakes designated for northern pike under sections 97C.001
and 97C.005 may not exceed 100 at one time. Until November 1, 2021, the designated
lakes must be selected from the lakes identified in rules adopted under sections 97C.001
and 97C.005 with northern pike slot limits effective on January 1, 2011. A designation
under this section must continue for at least ten years, at which time the commissioner shall
determine, based on scientific studies, whether the designation should be discontinued.
EFFECTIVE DATE.This section is effective November 1, 2011.
97C.371 SPEARING FISH.
Subdivision 1.Species allowed.
Only rough fish, catfish, lake whitefish, and northern pike may be taken by spearing.
Subd. 2.Dark houses required for certain species.
Catfish, lake whitefish, and northern pike may be speared only from dark houses.
Subd. 3.Restrictions while spearing from dark house.
A person may not take fish by angling or the use of tip-ups while spearing fish in a dark house, except that a person may take fish by angling if only one angling line is in use and any fish caught by angling is immediately released to the water or placed on the ice.
Subd. 4.Open season.
The open season for spearing through the ice is November 15 to the last Sunday in February.
Subd. 5.Nonresidents.
Nonresidents may spear from a fish house or dark house.
History:
1986 c 386 art 3 s 36; 1Sp1995 c 1 s 41; 2006 c 281 art 2 s 50,51; 2008 c 368 art 2 s 66; 2009 c 176 art 2 s 60
My apologies for hijacking this thread, back to our state 🙂
"vano397" said:
[quote="Will Schultz"]Thanks to all of you that took the time to respond. We will have to do this again when the regulation proposals are open for comment but in much greater numbers.
Do they have any idea when this will be???
– mid-February there will be surveys sent to anglers about their opinions on fishing habits, angling methods, size limits, etc.
– The regs. document will be sent to the public in mid-March with website and press releases
– Public meetings will occur in April, May, and June
"Hamilton Reef" said:
I believe your professional work that went into the MMA Muskellunge Regulations Proposal will do well in the final review.
I hope this goes smoothly over the next few months. As I think back over all of the great MMA accomplishments: Tracking studies, Iowa fish transfer, KTD Signs, Genetic testing, etc. this one thing is the real MMA legacy to all future generations of muskie anglers in Michigan.
Michigan maintains the opportunity to spear as there is limited
information to suggest that spearing provides more
exploitation than hook and line angling. Certain waters may
require regulations to further protect the population while not
limiting the angling activity.
This statements kills me there might be limited information, but I'll tell you something a dead musky(speared) sure and the hell won't spawn.
BOB
It is hard to overcome somethings, but we sure need to try. I am a 3rd generation darkhouse spearer. I really haven't done any in the last 25 years(don't ever remember spearing a musky), lost interest because of the wanton waste I saw and also because of my interest in musky fishing.
We just have change some of the mindset of some, never going to change all.
BOB
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