Wow- your right Slimeball I was not hip to the current stats- 🙄 I did not realize they had closed that gap so far. I don't keep current on that stuff anymore as I don't really have a reason to… How is the $$ difference? I imagine the 4's are still a bit more ?
Chemi- Not an engineer for sure [smilie=attention.gif] I just spent many of the last twenty years on the biz – interestingly enough there is a unit produced by Stihl called a four-mix that has been out for a while now that runs on two stroke mix, has valves, has no crankcase oil and is quite efficient in terms of fuel consumption. I cant ever see the application crossing though due to the re-tooling and engineering it would take to do it. I just know how much I enjoy piloting my four stroke compared to other units, many times I will float down the river and idle by a parked fisherman in the dead calm and when the engine gets next to them they look all perplexed and say "Holy crap that thing is running??" That is the kind of stealth I like when creeping around in the boat so I dont think I could ever go back to the old smokers. They have come a long way but I still dont love em'
Kevin
I have only had four outboards in my life. Three of them were 2 strokes. All were Mercury engines. The first was a 40 hp 4 cylinder 2 stroke. I went 6 years without doing anything but changing the lower unit oil. Never even had to put plugs in it. This engine was very quiet and would troll down to under 2 mph with a 16 foot Smoker craft. The downside was it ate 12 gallons per day even when mixing up the trolling with casting. It was not an efficiant engine but very durable and trouble free. My second engine was a 115 Optimax that came on our Starcraft when we bought it new in 2004. Most of remember the year long battle with Mercury over this engine. It ate spark plugs by the day. It was how ever great on gas and with no oil changes very nice for people who fished 2 to 6 days per week.
Merc avoided a law suit with us and replaced the Optimax with a 115 4 stroke. It seemed a blessing at first but I soon saw some dangerous down sides to this engine. First it is a Yamaha power head and has the same problems that the 115 Yamahas had. These engines make water in the Crankcase for several reasons. Condensation,water in the fuel and operating temps. The factory recommends changing the oil every 80 hours of running time. For many that is a whole season. During our 2006 season that was every two to three weeks. We would go to St. Clair and troll for 5- 12 hour days then a couple days local and we were changing the oil. I thought I was getting ripped off so I started changing my own oil. The first time I pulled the plug I got almost 1/3 of a cup of clear water out before the oil started flowing. Needless to say I am not happy.
The guys at Sport Fisherman say as soon as my warranty is up I should put in a hotter(OMC) thermostat. They say this will cure about 80% of the problem. Then I have to add a gas line dryer to get the rest. As for economy the 115 4 stroke gets better gas milage than my 40 hp 2 stroke did by a long shot and gives us way more power. It does not however Idle down as low as either the Optimax or the old 40 . I can barely troll slow enough to fish spoons for salmon. We still have to change the oil three times per year to keep tyhe water level from exceeding the level of the drain tube. That is the saftey valve for this engine. It takes about 80 hours odf running to make enough water in the crank case to fill the tube that leads to the drain plug. If you exceed this level of water , it will mix with your oil and be sent to all the moving parts like your main bearings causing bearing failures and such.
I am looking at the new Evenrude direct injection 2 stroke. Thay say three years with no sceduled maintainence. Ill have to see that to believe it. Mercury almost had the perfect Engine with the 115 Optimax. I had two different power heads and both failed to perform at the lower end of the spectrum. Theyt had claimed this engine would be the one engine that would do it all. Trolling killed mine in less than 4 hours. Plugs were fouled. I had to change plugs on the water so many times I lost count. This engine was tops in all other stats. Best gfas mileage, Lowest rpm in gear, smart guage digital throttle. I just could not get past the spark plug issue.
Now the little 2 cylinder 9.9 2 stroke is a little jewel. Cheap to operate no problems, no plug foulings and uses less gas than any other motor I have ever owned. Its not fast and it wont even get our Jon up on plane when I got Both of us and all our gear on board but it is trouble free and inexpensive to run.
This is why we have two boats. The 1448 doe not require a separate insurance policy so we only have one for the Starcraft. The boat is covered by our homeowners because it is less than 16 feet. Its like having a free boat. We now only use the Starcraft when we are going to big water and for extended trips on big water. I did not feel safe in a 16 footer on Lake St. Clair. A 16 foot Aluminum will fish every lake but St. Clair and the big 5 up north. If trolling is not something you plan on doing you wont burn the gas with a bigger engine so a big 2 stroke like a Merc Classic 90 would serve you well. There many new engines out there that claim to have all the answers. So far I dont like the Merc Optimax or the Merc 4 strokes in the 115 hp class. Mike
Thats a two stroke right? It better have clean plugs being new and all. My 115 Optimax fouled the first set of three plugs out two days after it was broke in. After that it was almost every week for an entire year back and forth to the dealer getting new plugs, Fuel rails and even a brand new power head. After one year we were ready for a law suit. Merc offered us the 115 4 stroke in exchange. We took it. Now we deal with water in the crank. I should have bought a Honda . Mike
What do I know, this is my first 'rig' and am getting close to that magic birthday this October. I bought a 16 foot open aluminum and bought a small Honda in '06. I dont need to go 40 mph. That little 15 hp jumped $900 in 2007 for what I got it for in 06. 2 cylinder and it is QUIET. I can burn less than a gallon of gas when at Murray. And running out to Lk. Michigan and trolling for a couple of hours, will cost me 1 1/2 to 2 gallons of gas. Waaay better than I ever expected. It used to go 22 mph the first year but now maybe 18 since I have loaded it up with toys and a bow mount. I never considered a used motor but the boat and trailer could be used. This motor has a three year warranty and this is the last year for it. My boat could handle a 40 hp, but I dont want to see how much those cost now. 2 years ago the guys at Sportfisherman thought a 40 hp might go for $5k in 3 or 4 years but it might be higher by then. There might be a few used Honda's out there. Lakeside Marine in Muskegon still might have a few left from 07 and 06. MIKE-that Tuffy in Whitehall/Montague was mentioned to me in 2006 too. Why is it still available? Wasnt it put in the paper, or are they not that serious about parting with it?
"Kingfisher" said:
Thats a two stroke right? It better have clean plugs being new and all. My 115 Optimax fouled the first set of three plugs out two days after it was broke in. After that it was almost every week for an entire year back and forth to the dealer getting new plugs, Fuel rails and even a brand new power head. After one year we were ready for a law suit. Merc offered us the 115 4 stroke in exchange. We took it. Now we deal with water in the crank. I should have bought a Honda . Mike
Yeah, mine's a carbed 2-stroke. The Optimax is 2-stroke, too, but fuel-injected. Sounds to me like the one you had was over-injecting the 2-stroke oil, fouling the plugs.
I'm no gear head but I can tell you that my Suzuki 4-stroke has been completely flawless and I put a ton of miles on it. The dealer that I bought it from sells Merc's and Suzuki's and they push the Suzuki's because they say they never have to work on them after they sell them. They are also very compact. My 115 is about the size of the 75 Merc 4-stroke.
"hemichemi" said:
[quote="Kingfisher"]Thats a two stroke right? It better have clean plugs being new and all. My 115 Optimax fouled the first set of three plugs out two days after it was broke in. After that it was almost every week for an entire year back and forth to the dealer getting new plugs, Fuel rails and even a brand new power head. After one year we were ready for a law suit. Merc offered us the 115 4 stroke in exchange. We took it. Now we deal with water in the crank. I should have bought a Honda . Mike
Yeah, mine's a carbed 2-stroke. The Optimax is 2-stroke, too, but fuel-injected. Sounds to me like the one you had was over-injecting the 2-stroke oil, fouling the plugs.
I had bought it at Lakeside in Muskegon. They said the mix was right and the problem was puddling of fuel in the lowest cylinder. Number three would go first almost every time. The second one did the same thing. Merc claims to have fixed the problem with the newer ones. Ill never know because Ill never buy another one and be a test pilot again. Ifd we ever get another motor it will be a Honda 4 stroke or a new Everude E TEC . If Gas keeps going up we wont be buying anything that runs on gas. Ill be looking at another form of propulsion. Mike and Michelle
Sailboat trolling sounds fraught with difficulties! [smilie=applause.gif]
Unless you get a mule, like in the old Erie Canal:
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Lureless, I have been looking at getting a boat as well and saw the Grizzly Tracker at Gander Mountain. I think it runs around $2700 (1448) for the boat and trailer. It looks like the perfect boat for what I would need since I don't fish the big lake much and it seems very roomy and stable. My question is, I currently have a 4hp Johnson and was wondering if that would be enough to push that boat around since those boats are fairly heavy for their size. Most of my time is spent casting and I am planning on mounting a 50lb thrust trolling motor. I would be towing the boat around in my company car which is a Dodge Charger. Also, the 14 foot seems big enough-I would imagine the 15.6' boat would cost a few hundred more so having fished out of your boat, what are your thoughts regarding the boat sizes and engine? Thanks!
I have done some research and think I'm going to go with that 1448 Grizzly that Rob was talking about. My next question is two-fold. First, what horse motor would be ideal (a question Rob already touched on), and second, is it worth five hundred more dollars to get a new motor over a working used one? ($1800 compared to $1300)
Joel
It looks like 25 HP is it's maximum and typically you want to get a motor no less than 80% of it's maximum rating. For $500 difference I would get the new one unless you really think the used one is well taken care of. It's no fun when you get out on the lake and your motor dies. Good luck!
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"jvkop2" said:
I have done some research and think I'm going to go with that 1448 Grizzly that Rob was talking about. My next question is two-fold. First, what horse motor would be ideal (a question Rob already touched on), and second, is it worth five hundred more dollars to get a new motor over a working used one? ($1800 compared to $1300)Joel
You would be really happy with a 15 on that. It would be worth stopping in at Murray Lake Marine to see what they have used. Buying used from a dealer is much safer than buying from "joe random". For that matter check in at Camp & Cruise and D&R.
Joel, we have a 1448 Sea ARk ita almost the exact same thing. It has a 48 inch wide bottom hence the 1448 -14 feet long 48" wide . Ours has a 9.9 2 cylinder. With Michelle and I both and out gear we can make 11 mph almost on plane. With one person and minimal gear I can get on plane and do about 14 mph. The two stroke is an older one 2003 . Last year they made that engine. The 15 is the same size engine just a bigger bore. By buddy has one with a 4 stroke 25 on his. That boat gets up and boogies.
Jons are cool because you can add in seats and floors like we did. I have bow mount electric motor. 36 lb works great for that boat. Any time you want to see ours just sto over. Give me a call first 231 733 9324 . We added those floors and tube rod holders in one day. Its a mini bass boat now. Mike and Michelle
Lureless, I have been looking at getting a boat as well and saw the Grizzly Tracker at Gander Mountain…. what are your thoughts regarding the boat sizes and engine? Thanks!
If you plan on doing any river fishing the bigger the boat the more stable, an extra foot makes a difference. Like King said if its under 16ft it doesn't need any extra insurance if it can be covered under your house insurance. So thats why I have the 1548.
As far as engine goes I fish the muskegun river a lot and I have a 55lb bow mount trolling motor that will pull me and another person up river when the river is cooking in the spring flows. On a lake I can move at a good clip too of coarse.
I have a 25 hp 4-str bigfoot Merc on the boat and it really goes way faster then I really need to safely [smilie=attention.gif] . I don't know speeds for sure, but up on torch lake I was following my brother doing a little under 30mph as he told me.
A 4hp will move you around fine as long as your not in any races.
I love my boat its tough as nails with the thick hull. The only thing wish it had is some kind of rod locker because I now have small kids in the boat. If you live near Grand Rapids and want to test tow let me know.
Joel, you guys are really tall. Before buying a 1448 you should stand up in one on the water. Your center of gravity may be a bit higher than the rest of us short folks. They do make a 15 and 16 foot with a 60 inch bottom now. An extra foot OR even 6 inches of bottom width would be better for tall guys I would think. They didnt make a 60 when we got ours. I am sure they are more stable. Sea Ark Makes a 1660MV They sell them at Camp and Cruise. There is also a 1554 Grizzly. That extra 6 inches could be a big plus with tall guys. Mike
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