Back to thre original post…Black lake info.
Now it seems to me that sharing information about Michigan musky lakes, or other, within the members discussion area of the website would and should be a very helpful and positive tool for club members.
I realize that there are some who are tight-lipped and don't want to share any information pertaining to specific bodies of water because they feel that they have "paid their dues" and others should do so as well.
Here are just a few reasons why musky fisherman don't like to share information, (I'm sure that we can all think of a few more).
– "Why should I give away all of my hard earned knowledge to someone who has not paid their dues or spent time on the water. I spent lots of time and money to get this far"
– "If I do share lake info. then the lake will receive added pressure"…and we don't want that….do we?
– "If you use my guide service I will share my spicy knowledge with you….. CASH!
Now I understand these points and they all can be considered atleast
somewhat valid by some. An example might be small, pressured lakes.
So the question is, How mush information do we really want to share? and to whom do we share it with?
I would suggest that our club members have an abundance of Musky knowledge but relatively little is shared in our website discussions. What are we waiting for? Certainly, members share info. via private message
or over the phone but not much open sharing on the website. I've heard of several people unjustly being ridiculed for sharing information.
The MMA website can be a perfect vehicle for the sharing of Musky information for MMA members. We need to promote the sharing of information among club members. We need to educate members.
I would really like to participate in open dialog/discussion regarding musky behavior, musky movement, lake strategies, etc..
We should be creating a positive environment for these types of discussions. Education & sharing of knowledge are of most importance and this should be, I think, the primary focus of the website. Certainly not politics, self promotion or ego massaging.
This subject has come up many times. We have lost members due to the heated conversations around this topic. There have been (including from myself) reasons given why we dont share more. The issue seems to be reciprocity for many. I have learned that the give comes in the form of increased membership, added funding for projects and a healthier fishery for all of us. Do we lose some to the spear? Yes. delayed mortality? yes improper handling ? you bet. Will these things ever stop? NO they wont, our only hope is to increase the health of the fishery and bring the newbs to us and teach them the proper ways to angle, catch, release and yes even keep a few. Better to harvest a dead fish than to waste a fish entirely vis-a-vis the Wisco giant. I will be more open but honestly I only fish a few lakes and most of them no one is remotely interested in. The other side of this is the guys who get pummeled with questions all the time. Most if not all the lake questions have been asked and answered on here somewhere, searching for them is work but it should yield good results.
Where this post went wrong is assuming that there is a lot of info among the membership that is not being shared, I don't think there is. I sent Chad a message with what little I had instead of posting it because it was mostly second hand and I dont want anyone thinking that I know that lake well and fishing it based on my loose knowledge of it.
Want to fish Manistee lake or river, Upper chain on Intermediate, Portage or Hamlin? I can and will help. Most of "you guys" those geographically below US 10 fish the same bodies of water and know them fairly well. As the post on structure fishing is attempting to prove you only need to know the lake has fish to be effective not their name and address. That went from being a discussion to becoming a lecture series. A few people are or did read the book and are discussing it or asking for specific clarifications some just want the cliffnotes version to help them catch more fish, it does not work like that. The people who catch a lot of fish put in a lot of time fishing intelligently and mapping and recording their data. Should they feel obligated to divulge all that at someones request? Not being sarcastic here, serious question.
All in all we are a good group of people but we are also a small group of people especially on line. I have not met many of you yet I can modify your posts, is that reasonable? I have never fished most of the lakes that people on here fish and I probably won't that doesnt mean I cant learn from these people. This is evident on the fishing reports we can all leave spoonplugger detailed reports but we dont because we dont want people using our baits in our spots catching our fish.
Where I am going with all this is that the only way we will be comportable is when there is no shortage of fish, which requires money, which requires anglers, which requires recruiting, which requires sharing of info with new people who may catch our fish.
We all need to share openly to improve the fishery by my calculations so lets try to.
Kevin
"Chuck S." said:
Jason,I checked out the place you stayed at on Black Lake…….WOW. Looks nice.
How much rent if I may ask? What shore of the lake is it located? Were there boat lifts or did you anchor out from the dock at night? That lake can be one rough sob with a N or NW wind!
Chuck,
If I remember right it was around $100-$110 a night, that was four years ago. They had the main house with I believe four two bedroom condo units with lake view and one seperate cottage to the side.
Docking is on a canal that cuts into the side of the property.
Yes, the shape of the lake and pretty good size 10,000+ acres = challenging boat control/fishing if the wind kicks up.
Oh yeah, Cowpers is in the West shore of the lake South of Five Mile point.
Nice to see some discussion on the lake. I plan to fish it in the earlier part of the season for a couple days. I will provide a report and be more than happy to share details of the trip. I appreciate all those who have commented and whom I have had discussions with via PM.
I could go off on a rant, but it has been said before…
In general, I think people used to share more via reports & discussions. They get cracked on the head for one reason or another. Next time they either post less, or nothing at all. After a while, nobody is talking or if they are, they aren't really saying anything that is meaningful.
This is the the culture within this small community; like it or not. Only we can change it. Do we want to use this site this way? We can all do our part by leading by example.
One of the better known walleye guides on the Erie/Detroit River system used to give a lot of seminars on fishing for walleye. He would always say, feel free to give me a call if you are out on the water, and I will do what I can to help you out. But… When you are having a good day, I would like to hear from you. He was always willing to share. I know we aren't talking about the walleye fisheries, but what a great attitude.
Tim, Cyberlunge and Chasin50…
Thank you for getting to the point I was trying to make. Sometimes I feel like I'm the one directing traffic around here and it gets old. This forum is the MEMBERS forum. I'll admit that once in a while I'll use other means than simply stating what I'm hoping people realize "the point" by themselves. That's probably because I'm teaching all the time in the real world and I'm not one for holding hands when teaching (I'm not going to do for you what you have the tools to do for yourself).
Wouldn't it be nice if we could all share without being ridiculed for sharing too much information?
Wouldn't it be nice if those we have helped become better fishermen returned the favor to other anglers instead of keeping to themselves or simply coming to MMA to get them started then abandoning MMA?
Wouldn't it be nice if people weren't questioned or ridiculed when they choose not to share information?
All of these are ligitimate questions but I belive these are all questions that relate to a fishing club and not a conservation organization.
You see, I've always wanted MMA to be a conservation organization and not a "fishing club" and I've said this a million times. Alas, I am not MMA and I'm sure you can figure out how to handle the "club" aspect of MMA without my input. From here on I'm going to restrict my responsibilities strictly to P.R.E. because that is what I feel started MMA and truly is what MMA means to me.
If you want MMA to be a "fishing club" then all of you as the MMA members need to find someone to step up and lead the "fishing club" aspect of MMA. It's the part I've always disliked dealing with and the part I'm vowing to stay out of from here on. We've tried all the ways I can think of to get more people involved in MMA and frankly I'm tired of trying and spend too much time dealing with and thinking about this stuff when I should be dealing with the really important issues that the muskellunge fishery here in Michigan faces now and in the future.
So… I'm begging you that if you want this to be a "fishing club" (I'm not saying that is a bad thing) PLEASE find someone that will run for president in December 2008 or at the very least find someone that is willing to step up and put the time in to get people involved in the "club" aspects of MMA.
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