"Mayhem" said:
[quote="adamphodges"]Will, I've heard some rumors of a third musky being speared on Hamlin this year. Do you know of any info on this?
An atrocious amount of fish get speared on that lake and a lot of them are well under 42".
Yup. And the last two years working the booth at the Ultimate Fishing Show in March I've had guys openly tell me about spearing undersized fish on Hamlin. One guy freely admitted to killing 3 because he kept thinking they were pike.
"robhj" said:
The mission statement of the MDAA is, "The Michigan Darkhouse Angling Association actively works to establish equality of winter spearing and angling among all resident fishermen and to provide sound conservation practice of our sport." Huh? What the hell does that even mean…..conservation practice of our sport?" I have never once heard any Darkhouse association talk about ways to protect the resource. It's always about more opportunity for THEM.
Pretty much sums them up. It is really amazing that they can try, in the same sentence, to tell you that they understand population densities are way too low, and that they want to continue to spear those same lakes…
Conservation is the LAST thing on their minds (except for stunted overpopulated pike populations), and any way they twist it, it still is about their own opportunity to harvest a fish… ethically or not.
"vano397" said:
[quote="robhj"]The mission statement of the MDAA is, "The Michigan Darkhouse Angling Association actively works to establish equality of winter spearing and angling among all resident fishermen and to provide sound conservation practice of our sport." Huh? What the hell does that even mean…..conservation practice of our sport?" I have never once heard any Darkhouse association talk about ways to protect the resource. It's always about more opportunity for THEM.
Pretty much sums them up. It is really amazing that they can try, in the same sentence, to tell you that they understand population densities are way too low, and that they want to continue to spear those same lakes…
Conservation is the LAST thing on their minds (except for stunted overpopulated pike populations), and any way they twist it, it still is about their own opportunity to harvest a fish… ethically or not.
We get labeled wrongly, that we are in cahoots with the DNR because we truly want proper management/conservation for the fish/fishery. The fact that it benefits us as musky anglers is what makes the MDAA think that we are selfish. Sometimes what is best for the fishery, can also be what is best for the individuals enjoying the resource (as in our case)… this is not the case with their group, so they use it as leverage against us… and we become elitist.
Well, a vote against Hamlin stocking is a vote against my membership in this chapter, and I hope it doesn't come down to that. I fish the entire state and hope to spread my wings a little more this year, but Hamlin is my "15 minutes down the road" (5, actually). I support MMA and Muskies Inc.'s mission as much as I can, but I will repeat that spewing venom and making overt social media threats of a ban will just hurt the fishery, as anti-tribal rhetoric has done on LVD. Nobody wants dead fish left under KTD signs.
Our local biologist has said any effort to ban spearing on Hamlin must have local support and right now it's just not there. If you want to win the battle for Hamlin and Margrethe, get up here, put more C&R photos in the local papers and let the spearing photos continue to run. People will gradually favor C&R just as they did with a quick of a released big bass vs. a pic of a full stringer. We are already hearing rumblings from non-anglers about what a shame it was that those fish had to die, which is progress. And I will re-state, in the absence of a ban the best thing we can hope for is some self-policing. Guys who hunt Kansas don't come back to Michigan and shoot spikes. (Most, anyway). If guys get a load of bigger fish, they'll stop dropping spears on borderline-legal fish and (hopefully) have less opposition to higher size limits.
There was talk of a muskie fishing seminar up here when stocking began and it never materialized, but I believe that would be a step toward recruiting more open-water muskie anglers. I'm not experienced enough to conduct a seminar. I can go to Will's seminars and other seminars and relay what I hear on the outdoors page, but having someone with photos of multiple 50-inchers speaking has a little more gravitas.
My personal opinion is that with the growth we're seeing, the mature fish are on some kind of open-water forage in the warm-weather months. I have to think that for my sanity because I have pounded every weedline in this lake from May-Oct. since stocking began.
With the lack of catches in open water… it is going to be pretty damn tough to recruit more open water muskellunge fisherman.
If I read about how you pound the lake with nothing to show, why the hell would I want to drive an hour and a half to not have a legit chance at a fish. And for the record I have 14 hours on Hamlin with zero contact.
For me, it is all about return on investment, and taking the proper steps to build up the fishery. When I hear of individuals spearing and shoving more undersized muskies down a hole than I hear of landed by all of MMA in the open water season… sorry if I thing of a spearing ban as a solution.
Also, I think spearing on most muskie lakes should be banned… not singling out Hamlin.
I don't think Hamlin should stop getting fish, just hurts to see such winter exploitation.
How is it that stating facts is spitting venom? Dead fish don't spawn. Why sugar coat it?
"tundrawalker00" said:
We are already hearing rumblings from non-anglers about what a shame it was that those fish had to die, which is progress.
That's not really progress, that's the game changer. I've long said that if we played the game the way the spearing group plays the game by bullying, threats and spreading misinformation spearing would be gone overnight. Which would make the general population happier; an angler caught fish swimming away or a speared fish hanging from a spear lifeless and bleeding? Problem is that this opens the door for PETA and that's a bedfellow I'm never willing to have.
Will, if I tell you I'm going to take away your Tranx, you're gonna be pissed and not listen to the rest of what I have to say. If I say "Hey, nice reel, that would be a great reel for big pike or stripers," then we can at least have a conversation. You're still gonna tell me that I can go blow when I ask you not to pull D10s for muskies, but you're gonna hear part of what I want you to.
The best parallel I can give you for this area is the QDMA battle. Ten years ago, it had zero chance here. It failed at the NRC. Six years ago, the people in the organization here had a giant buck with no antlers dumped on their driveway in the night. It was one they had on trailcam. Someone poached it and took the rack, left them a message.
But the guys kept on keepin' on with their big buck photos from their own land and their own voluntary QDM blocks and when the 13-county thing came along, Mason County passed it by a higher percentage than many of the other counties. They didn't accomplish it by overtly bashing other people's spikes and forks, but by just showing what was possible.
I just think there's more to be gained by pro-active efforts like talking to lake associations to both promote restoration and head off any of the idiocy going on in Minnesota.
Anyway, I know everyone on here wants the same thing and I appreciate all your efforts. I wish I lived closer to the hatchery, but I help the truck when it's here and I'll continue to do that. I'm happy to run any educational articles people want out there.
"tundrawalker00" said:
Will, if I tell you I'm going to take away your Tranx, you're gonna be pissed and not listen to the rest of what I have to say. If I say "Hey, nice reel, that would be a great reel for big pike or stripers," then we can at least have a conversation. You're still gonna tell me that I can go blow when I ask you not to pull D10s for muskies, but you're gonna hear part of what I want you to.
I think that's how most conversations go, there are always going to be people that just want to call someone an a-hole for spearing a fish and most of those are not MMA members. I'll draw the line and not sugar coat a response when previous comment(s) are stated as a matter of fact, when the actual facts couldn't be farther from the truth. When comments concerning lack of impact spearing has on a fishery, catch and release mortality is higher than spearing mortality, spearing muskies is their heritage, etc, etc.
You see, it's actually the spearing community that makes it about spearing. This is a harvest issue, plain and simple. Muskies are concentrated and extremely vulnerable to exploitation during the second half of the winter because of movements toward spawning areas. Harvest and sightings during this time are inflated and provide an unrealistic observation that there isn't anything wrong with the population.
And…..what's up with threatening your membership in the club if it doesnt support the continued stocking of Hamlin? Not saying Im against it, but Ive been a member for 10 + years and don't have a fishable stocked lake within almost 2hrs of my house. I also dream of a day when I could pond hop to any of 50 plus lakes within 15-20 mins of my house, but I've never said "stock the lakes 5mins from my house or I won't renew." I hope your not speaking for the club in any of your writings with that kind of attitude and ideals.
I have explained the tags each summer and winter in articles. I have also published multiple spearing "know the difference" articles. I contacted people in the MMA, MDAA and DNR to try to get some type of spearing "know the difference" pamphlet produced after I was told people were accidentally spearing short fish. I published the top-down photos from a Minnesota publication of the same vein in each of the last 2 winters to try to help alleviate this issue. I have also had multiple conversations with our local COs about the problem.
I am not threatening to cancel my membership. I joined this club to support its efforts after I became aware it was helping with feeding and collecting the muskies from the hatchery. I had never heard of the MMA prior to Hamlin being stocked. I'm in favor of stocking Hamlin, but I'm not making my membership contingent on it.
Finally, I have never represented myself as a spokesman for the club. However, when I have written against spearing of undersized fish and my personal desire for higher size limits, I have pointed out that I am a member of the MMA, a group that opposes muskie spearing, as a full disclosure notice.
I love these yearly conversations 😈
I realized the other day that we all too often take the easy way out of these conversations. Like Will said, it's too easy, and often that we just call someone an a-hole for spearing a fish. We all know that killing them is bad for the health of the fishery, harder on stocking/hatchery, and against what we are all trying to do… but we don't ever stop to think exactly why, or what would help progress the conversation. A simple point made to a friend, or on a post in social media that is that shallow, also makes the poster's idea's look that shallow (if that makes sense). Basically like has been mentioned, a little meat on the bone can go long way!
My son came home from 3rd grade the other day with an assignment about "the greater good". They are to come up with an idea, then create 3 points about the idea, and then find 3 points to substantiate each of those points. He came home with the Idea that Catch and Keep fishing for muskies is bad! I was as proud as the day he first sang "Hail! To the Victors"! Anyhow, I was ashamed when we got the 3 main points, and I had trouble organizing all the crap in my head enough to help him substantiate it… Thankfully my wife has published a handful of medical journals and came to my rescue!
Anyhow, I think as long as we are practicing the 3 points of our mission, P.R.E., our club is going the right direction, and hopefully we should be encouraged to practice some of those points on ourselves too [smilie=brows.gif] especially the "E" part…
I will also pledge that I am going to try REALLY hard to catch a fish, this open water season, that Tundra can publish! And I nominate Duke to write a follow-up article about practicing CIR [smilie=fear.gif]
I am not threatening to cancel my membership. I joined this club to support its efforts after I became aware it was helping with feeding and collecting the muskies from the hatchery. I had never heard of the MMA prior to Hamlin being stocked. I'm in favor of stocking Hamlin, but I'm not making my membership contingent on it.
I guess that's called an authors retraction in your business.
I was on Hamlin Saturday, trying for some gills and pike. We parked at the county park on Upper Hamlin, and I was blown away by the number of spearing holes (marked by branches so nobody falls into them) from the park up towards Laman's Landing. There was easily 100 holes I could see without wandering too far. The good part was there weren't many spearing shanties on the lake (not sure the "pitch forking" season is still open). The water was dirty so maybe the fish were getting a rest. The point is, didn't realize how many guys are spearing up there! I think I might bring a gas can with if I go back…….. 😈
The Darkhouse people had Michigan Out Of Doors doing a segment on them this week. Muskies weren't discussed, but spearing pike was praised and encouraged. (And based on what I saw in the video, it would be impossible in those conditions to mistake a muskie for a pike unless you DIDN'T know the difference.)
Perhaps MMA should invite MOOD on a muskie expedition and make sure PRE is highlighted.
The video is here: <url url="[Permission to view this media is denied]
">[Permission to view this media is denied]
"hemichemi" said:
Perhaps MMA should invite MOOD on a muskie expedition and make sure PRE is highlighted.
We have but didn't get a show that morning. For reasons that won't be shared here the invite wasn't extended again. Since it is a Michigan show we'll probably have to bite the bullet and do it again to get a show.
Fishhead, you won't see more than a couple dozen spearing shacks at once. There are quite a few people who will mark their panfish holes with branches when they know it's going to snow. It lets them come right back and it keeps cautious ice anglers away. I ran into this trick on a crappie spot on Lake Cadillac a couple weeks ago. But yes, Laman's Landing is the historical concentration. However, last winter's fish came from the panfish grounds on the north side of the lake (east of the brown boathouse straight out from Wilson).
368
23
1 Guest(s)