I love the net on the 4th video! I wouldn't use that net for gills! One thing you can pick up from all of the videos is that they all keep the fish out of the water longer than necessary (probably because they are being filmed). Will's video on this website shows how long you should have a fish out of the water if you intend to take pictures. Your camera man should have there finger on the button to take the picture as you are lifting it up.
The video where the fish got messed up in the mesh… that was a pretty brave stab at the fish to begin with, but they also didn't have a very good knot-less net (like the finsaver) and they wouldn't have had as big of a mess.
Some of the obvious no-no's… a couple of the fish were fought to complete exhaustion. I'm not a fan of the boga grip for landing fish… you have to wear a fish out to use it and I prefer a net and a good gill plate grip any day. The fish being measured on the bottom of the boat… this fish was pretty much dead before it got in the boat but then they kept it out of the water for a really long time after that (you could tell the skin of the fish was dry from being out of the water so long).
I guess I've never tried fishing muskies with one hand before but I see where it can present some issues.
I know I feel like I am a more knowledgeable angler after listening to Mr. Booger… dang that dude knows his muskies. I wonder if he has any openings to join him on his muskie yacht next season?
That is great example of how to net a fish. The net man had the net ready seconds after he set the hook and took the fish on the first good pause it made. Even with the exceptional length of this fish it didn't get tangled badly. They kept the fishes head in the water and unhooked it easily.
The time out the water is an issue again here though. Not too bad though and I'm sure the fish did just fine. Notice they wet the bump board before they measured it to prevent slime removal. With three guys in the boat they could have measured the fish over the side of the with the bump board and also girthed it. Nit picky, but we should always strive to make our releases as good as possible. Maybe I'm even just a little jealous here because they catch two 40 lbers and a 30 lber in one day!!!
Another comment, after catching two 50-plus-inchers do you really need to lay a 47 incher on the bump board to measure it?
I'm interested then… how many think that I am being over the top and nit picky here? In this example, where they measure the fish on a bump board on the deck of the boat, I'm sure it wouldn't kill the fish to measure it this way but it could remove slime and I just felt that it could have been avoided.
John E. Sox,
Just to be clear, i'm not saying that your wrong…it's just my opinion that your being a little "nit picky" (by the way, you yourself say in your post your being nit picky).
I also use a bumpboard for the simple reason that I want an accurate measurement. I also measure the fish with the bumpboard in the boat and not in the water because its difficult to get a good measurement in the water in my opinion. I dont see this method as uneccesary or bad handling and i know a helluva lot of other seasoned musky anglers who use the same method.
Maybe my views will change in the future and i'll be practicing total water release so i dont harm the fish by touching it,but for now I like using my bumpboard, getting an accurate measurement and even a picture or three.
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I guess we all have our comfort zone in how we handle fish, as this thread is showing. What's really great about the timing of this discussion is that it gives us all some time to think how we have handled these critters in the past, and re-think any improvements that we can make in a few weeks. That's been our unspoken goal every new season – have faster, safer, less stressful releases on our fish compared with the year before.
So personally I don't think John is being nit picky at all, because our fish haven't made it in our boat for 'dry' measurements (laying on any surface) in many, many years. With that many guys in the boat you could measure the thing in 5 seconds during the photo hold. Better yet, float a ruler and get one of your buddies to read it from the side during the release.
Slimeball-
I wasn't offended by what you said at all if you were thinking that. I normally wouldn't even say anything about their releases here because they are doing a good job really. The only reason I pointed this out is because we were on the topic of release tactics. I usually don't make any real accurate measurements but if I wanted one for a replica I would probably do just what they are doing. I didn't want to come off as being nit picky towards them, I am just nit picky about my own releases and wanted to share some of things that I am doing.
How about any comments on Boga Grips or the speed trolling while reeling a fish in.
By the way, anybody know where I can get a bump board similar to the one Jason H. is using here?
John E. Sox,
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I wasn't at the banquet this year but they usually had a couple for auction in years past. You can also get them through all the big online muskie tackle shops. Rollie's, Thorne Bros., Pastika's…..
"John E. Sox" said:
Whoa! Common sense? Two minutes? Fighting a fish until it 'settles down'? Not stopping the boat? This all sounds like over exhausting fish to me. I don't know if you are doing something different than me, but I have never had a fish tangle itself so bad that I couldn't get it released quickly. I have the same net. Maybe you are lifting up on the net or something but I just can't see a mess that bad with even the greenest of fish. And this business of 'LSC-style' trolling… aka trolling fast, not stopping the boat, and fighting fish for WAY too long… is a real pet peave of mine. Just because someone is on LSC doesn't mean that they have to troll so many lures that they can't stop the boat. If you are doing this than you are saying that is more important to catch fish than it is to be releasing them correctly. IMO you might as well be spearing them if you reel them in at 6 mph. I saw a guy on TV fight a fish for over 20 minutes on LSC! That is ridiculous! You could land a 60 lber in less time than that.
I'm not pointing the finger at you hear Mike. In fact, I'm sure that you do a good job releasing fish. Any time LSC and release tactics are mentioned in the same breath I get a little fired up. I just don't want any beginners thinking that you can fight fish until they are pooped and still have good survival rates.
This idea of netting a fish too soon needs to be explored more. Maybe someone could give some video examples of netting fish and we could comment on what we feel is correct/incorrect.
When fishing from 31 foot sea ray with 75 feet of board lines out stopping is not an option. These guys have had to find other ways of keeping fish in water. The 60 inch tanks do not allow the fish to even arch and the smooth sides prevent any scale loss. The water is cool and airrated. The fish come in are immediatly put in the tank. It as slick as I have ever seen. This is better in my opinion than leaning out over the side of a boat and trying to unhook and or cut hooks. In the tank its a piece of cake. The only thing that would make it better would be a tube leading back to water where you could just open one end of the tank and let them out. Some one still has to lift them back out of the tank and tordedo them back in the lake. I have never seen a fight go more than 5 minutes. Michelles 52 lasted about 5 minutes and we had stopped the boat. Miller slows down from 4.5 to about 2 when playing fish. His motor is at idle but they are still moving forward to keep the boards where they belong. Its not like you picture it. Maybe in the old days but not today. Kill rates are way down and concern for the fishery has replaced the kill them all mentality of years ago.
But these new tanks are worlds better than what they used to do out there. Like I said Michelle and I still stop the boat ,kill the engine and release by hand because we can. Our boat has low enough sides to be able to do that. You cant even think about that on cruiser like Millers boat.
Now as for tiring out a fish dont twist my words. An extra run or two that takes 15 seconds is moot. What I think is savage and cruel to these fish is the tactic of horseing them in with 6x hooks and 200 lb line in 5 seconds flat and watching them slam into the side of the boat for 2 minutes. There are many videos on you tube of this nonsense. You see it goes both ways. I get a sick feeling every time I hear some idiot tell another that he has to get this fish into the net as fast as possible. This nonsense leads to guys straightening out hooks ripping lures loose and injuring fish. When I say Common sense I mean just that. Carefull, relaxed, in control of the situation and being safe first. I do not advocte playing fish to death and I do not advocate horsing them in either. I watch Mesikomer horse fish all the time . Hes an Idiot for letting these fish thrash and head shake on a tight line at boatside. The smart guy gets his rod down and inverts and lets the fish take a little line. Thats common sense. I would prefer to subdue a big fish with finese than with brute force.
I tried the fast as you can thing for several years. No more. I had many fish wrap up in the old Beckman magnum with the deep bag. Only one so far in the Finsaver. My complaint about the fin saver is the bag is not deep enough. I could use two more feet. The fin saver is a better bag but when you get one wrapped in it,its worse than the old wide mesh for getting it unwrapped.
Now for another situation that came up where I did the right thing and it required bringing the fish into the boat to save its life. I was tossing a 205 crane over some cabbage when a smaller musky about 28 inches inhaled the bait to where the tail hook was not hooked but dangling deep in this fishes throat. Of course it was thrashing to beat the band. Everytime I used the jaw spreaders to open its mouth it would twist out of the hold. I could not get the angle or keep the fish still while it was suspended in the net. So I performed a three step process that worked great. I brought the fish INTO THE BOAT and had michelle hold it still while I cut all three hooks loose. I retrieved the thoat hook from the back side of the gills . It was brilliant. I then put the fish back in the net pen and let it settle down . It still had two treble hooks and one was at the base of its gills almost in the red and buried deep. I brought it back into the boat and cut the hooks off and retrieved the barbs with needle nose pliars. This took two more steps to get them. We sat with the fish for half an hour . I was thankfull the water was in the low 60's . I am confident this fish survived but I had to think outside the norm. This is where common sense comes into play. If I would have kept it in water and tried forcing the issue that fish would have got tore up in the throat and died. It had to be imobilized to get those hooks out. THE TRUTH is there is no set way or method that works every time. If you think there is you are going to be schooled and it will hurt.
Will, you dont even think about it any more as it is all reflex with you. This comes with many years of repeat performance. Its the same with us . We just do what has to be done to land,unhook and release safely. Most of the time its fast and easy other times it is nasty and difficult. Where I differ with many of the so called experts that write articles and sell videos and such is this. There is no written rule that everyone should follow except to use caution, common sense and just do the best you can to get them back with out harm. The more fish you handle with that mind set the better you will get, at recognizing the body language of these fish and making the right decisions. The guys on St. Clair have improved thier release methods in huge ways from the oild days of just tossing them in the prop wash. So John, rest assured that there are more guys on that lake that care than ever before .
To all the new guys that are heading out this year my advice is to get a big net. Make sure you have good side cutters or Knipex cutters. Good long nose pliers, several pairs. Good jaw spreaders. Dont over play a fish but with muskies that rarely happens. they make several runs and are most of the time ready to come into the net. Dont try to horse a fish in before its ready as this can lead to excessive head thrashing and can even bring one into the boat with you(happened to me) . Use your heads,be safe and do the best you can. No one can ask for more. It starts with caring about the fish and I think most all of us do. But never elevate the fish to apoint where you would risk your hand or more to save it. You are more important than any fish of any species. Have a safe 2008. I know we will. Mike and Michelle
Good stuff for a n00b like me to read!
Slight off-topic:
What do you recommend for jaw-spreaders? Most of what I see are wimpy looking 8" wire things that don't look musky-worthy:
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I have the 8" spreaders but I just ordered the 10" ones from Thorne Brothers and I just figure you can't have too many pieces of release equipment. I bought a pair of the Knipex cutters and they are great but expensive. I really don't want to lose these cutters and when working on a fish in the net it is easy to drop them. Has anyone added a lanyard to theirs? I don't want to drill them and was thinking of wrapping the lanyard cord around the base of the cutters with hockey tape. Anyone know a better way to do it?
that is basically what I do with most of my tools – tie a little rope to them with the other end being connected to a small caribbeaner (you can get them cheap at a lot of stores). When unhooking a fish simply attach the caribbeaner to the net so they dont fall into the water if you drop them. It may not look pretty, but it gets the job done.
The purpose of this discussion is to give some help to folks who haven't handled tons of big fish, I stand by my stance that it is of FAR greater concern to encourage them to land fish as quickly as the fish will allow. It is beaten into the heads of fishermen out there to fight fish to exhaustion. What's the first thing people ask you when they see a picture of a big fish? That's right- "how long did you fight it"? They are expecting some Hemingway prose about counting how many times the sun rose and set during the fight. THAT is the idea that many people come into musky fishing with, but they quickly learn that the sport of musky fishing is the take, not the fight. A musky is not a dime store hatchery salmon, and you can't lump all fish in the same group when it comes to fighting, and especially releasing.
The other side of this argument- safety for fish and especially fishermen when dealing with an ornery "green" fish is certainly valid. But, I say there is just not much difference bewteen a green fish and a spent fish when they are resting comfortably in a big ol net. Once they are in, just give em some time to chill before you even stick your long handled tools in there. Then, if you want a picture, give em some more time to relax before securing that gill hold.
Unfortunately, there is no way to be comfortable dealing with these toothy critters until you've had some experience, there is no substitute. But being well-informed will eliminate a lot of the learning curve. I do NOT buy it that all of these rookies are getting hurt out there becuase they've been told to rush the job- that is not a "fact". Mistakes are made, obviously more often by inexperienced anglers, but there is no way anyone in their right mind is sticking their hands into a slimy buzzsaw just because they heard to keep it quick. Give people a little more credit. No one ever said you have to rush it once the fish is in the net and it gills are under water.
I land my fish usually quite quickly, get them in the beckman, cut the hooks unless it isn't hooked too bad, then leave them in the net. Take em out as soon as camera is ready then hold them out for 5 seconds, then put them in the cradle and measure them then let them go. Most of my fish last year swam off faster than most bass i catch
I feel that it is the person holding the rod & fish that should dictate when the fish is netted, usually asap. One can many times tell when a fish is about to make a run or jump and if so it may be better to wait. We do have some control over the fish and how we want it to act but it doesn't always work out that way. Once the fish gets turned , head coming toward the boat, then the fish is scooped. Fish is then unhooked and left in the net if a photo is going to take place. Tools, bumpboard and camera should be ready and waiting before removing the fish from the net. Measuring a fish via bumpboard should really only take a few seconds.
I like to use the net as a pen while getting a bumpboard or camera ready if I'm fishing alone The fish stays in the water and should just be chillin.
I totally agree about mid 30" musky and especially pike. They can and will tend to throw a few tantrums once netted. Most of the hooks in hand injuries and blood loss have been from these size fish in years past.
I have a good/bad experience with a fish that may have been too green. I was with my 2 sons when they were young, 10 and 12 or so. I was showing them how to work a suick on LVD over a great weedbed. I was really working the bait with super long and hard pumps just to illustrate a point. A big fish hit and my 6'9" St croix heavy action rod was bent in half and throbbing like I've never seen before. The fish was going crazy!
I told Shane to get the net and if I got the fish up close to net it. The fish came right along side the boat not torpedo speed but not lounging either. I knew the fish was full of it and wasgoing to make another fast run so I said wait until the next time up and then net her. The big fosh made a run, stopped and began to chomp on my suick. I could feel her just sitting there but couldn't move her. A few seconds later and up pops the bait. I got a look at the fish and looking back I think I would have had Shane try and net the fish on that first pass although Shane was not an experienced net man at the time.
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