I'll let you know as soon as I catch one! 
🙄
But I voted "Play until they begin to tire, then into a monstrous net". I would add, "just begin to tire", though.
I know it's bad to overplay them to exhaustion, but I expect it can be bad to try to net/de-hook them before they tire, since they can harm themselves thrashing too much in the net, too.
PLEASE tell me if I'm wrong about that! I don't want to be killing muskies out of ignorance. [smilie=frown.gif]
One very interesting difference, and a fortuitous one I'd say, between pike and muskies is that they behave so differently once netted. Pike seem to be vengeful- they seem to save all their energy during the fight for the moment they're in the net or especially when you begin to reach for the hooks and they go apenuts. Muskies really seem to just chill out much of the time as soon as they hit the net. Its not a hard and fast rule by any means, but it sure is thoughtful of them and handy for getting those hooks out, and saving them some added stress of a longer fight. Bottom line for me and my fishing buddies – you will never ever hear the phrase "not yet, she's too green!" Taking a green fish does take some experience and skill though, to avoid the dreaded premature release via getting the bait stuck in the net…
Something else to add – Duke and I often get the net in hand and ready to scoop BEFORE a fish is hooked. This is done on throwbacks to hot fish, figure 8's when it's obvious they are probably going to take a swing, and also when entering into an area where a customer has been pinpointed. We have landed nice fish, had hooks out, snapped a quick pic, and had them swimming away in literally a total of a few seconds this way.
None of the above. Every Musky hooked is a different story and trying to put a netting practice into one Idea works for all is Impossible. Michelle and I use our common sense when handling Muskies. I dont care what anyone says. Bringing a green fish into a net is hard on the fish and even more dangerous to the anglers. I also think playing one out to exaustion is not right. I use a beckman fin saver magnum. It has a huge net pen and the fish just stays in the water until it goes back. Pics are short just a few seconds. But I do NOT rush the process of handling these fish. Getting unzipped by a musky is dangerous because you could open a wrist vein and bleed to death. I will not pick up a green fish or let Michelle either. They are after all a fish, not a thing to placed above human safety. Common sense is how we approach handling muskies. We do the best we can do putting (our) safty first. We dont take pics of small fish anymore so that lets a lot our fish off in the water. I still photo fish in 45" and up range. This is a good way to limit how many you handle right there. On our Fluke Lake trip in 2006 we took pictures of only 8 fish out of 104 . Common sense. Be safe and use a big net pen if pictures are a must. Kingfisher
So what you are saying Mike is you have netted green fish that subsequently injured themselves, and that if you had tired them out further before netting it would have been a healthier release?
Discussion like this is the reason I posed the question, its good. Personally, I have concluded getting them into the net at the first opportunity is my preference. That is the reason and value for buying a modern muskie net. As far as our safety while unhooking, that's what our complement of tools are for. My opinion is they render the point of tiring a fish out before unhooking, for safety, moot. If someone were waiting until a fish no longer has the gas left to even headshake so that they are motionless during unhooking, I think that is uneccessary stress. Yes, I fully appreciate they are "just a fish", but again I say that release tools and a good net eliminate the trade-off between "its him or me!"
I picked the net right away option. But this isn't always the best option, depending on who is doing the netting. Like my brother or some other inexperienced net person always trys to do the swoop em in like he's catching butterflies in a field. When this is done, the muskie will imediately go on an explosive run. It is better to just leave the net way down in the water and lead then into it on the closest pass.
How many people net every fish they hook? Im going to start trying to water release smaller fish as to put as little stress on them as possible. If im going to net a fish I will net the fish at the first chance I get. However, if I am going to water release the fish I will probably play it out a little more so I can safely get the hooks out. Im not sure on this, but I would think that less stress is put on the fish by being played out more and water released than being netted and held for pictures.
Each situation is different, of course. Much of how a fish reacts in the net is due to angler induced circumstances. Lifting the fish or pulling them toward the boat with the net or not keeping their head under water is what causes fish to thrash. Even a really green fish will calm down quickly if their head is kept under water. Out of about a 1000 fish that have gone in and out of my finsaver I can honestly say that a fish being tired or green doesn't have any relevance on how the fish behaves in the net. In my experience it is the fault of the person hurrying the unhooking process or doing something stupid (like lifting a fish with the lure in its mouth) that causes problems. The amount of time it takes to get the fish to net or how green the fish is in the net has no bearing on these bad situations.
Wow. More differing opinions than I thought. My take…..green fish + net = twisted net, hooks buried, hurt fish, bleeding Steve. Way tired fish + warm water = stressed fish, possibly dead fish. Somewhere in between seems ideal but its not reality every time. From my experience a net in the water waiting for a fish = a fish that turns away from the net confusing the net man and usually means a real mess and/or lost fish. A good net man doesn't make a stab at the fish. He waits for the angler to say "I'm ready" and then the angler guides the fish toward the net head first as the bag is dropped from the right hand and slides it toward and under the fish. Once in the net or 3/4 in, the net man holds the net handle up so the bag collapses and fish is OK, still in the water, and won't come out. Magnum fin-saver XD Pen net by Beckman. Starting this year, I will not put fish on a bump board or girth them. I'd rather keep them in the net, and weigh them with a hanging style scale if I think its necessary. You simply weigh the net and subtract it form the total weight to get the weight of the fish.
So Will your saying that a green fish does not have the tendency to thrash more for a longer period of time in the net vs. a fish that has made a couple runs and jumps, if you keep its head below the water, even if you're going at its face with hookcutters or pliers? Not trying to sound sarcastic, its just interesting. How does one "hurry the unhooking process"? I agree that all situations are different. With that being said, we never play a fish longer than when its willing to come to the net. If its made a couple hard pulls or tailwalked a bit, we net it when it comes along side the boat.
Good stuff. We tend to point at the spearers so much for killing fish when we should be spending more time on learning how to not kill them ourselves!
I'm siding with Duke and Will on the green fish thing. I really don't think there is such a thing as a fish that is too green. Having a big knot-less net (and some experience) makes this a breeze for a high percentage of the fish. If you have a good net and hook cutters, entanglements should only last seconds if they do occur. My finsaver is the best release tool I have bought. I have very few fish that get tangled badly and a lot of room to work with the fish under the water.
jasonvkop- I really don't even try to land fish sometimes. If I get them to bite and don't care for a picture then I will sometimes even try to shake them off. Getting a fish to eat is the main objective to me. If a little one doesn't get netted then I won't lose any sleep. If I get a fish in the low 30 inch range and it isn't hooked bad then I will have pliers in hand and water release them. Any fish that is hooked badly will probably be netted to shorten the fight and do the necessary surgery to keep them alive. Big fish (which I wish I had more experience with 😡 ) get netted immediately.
We really need to discuss more of the precautions we all take to keep fish alive. I'm sure that we kill more fish than spearing does but we can change that.
Here are some examples of precautions that I take: I remove a lot of tail hooks on lures to keep them from foul-hooking fish in vital areas. I usually use 10-inch-plus leaders, glue my knots, change my line, inspect my line, and use split rings instead of snaps to prevent break-offs. I don't take pictures of 95 percent of my fish. Lot's of my fish never leave the water (unless they jump). I don't fish in water much into the upper 70 degree range. I try not to fish in huge waves/wind when I am by myself. I have all my release tools ready…. etc… etc…
"Steve Horton" said:
So Will your saying that a green fish does not have the tendency to thrash more for a longer period of time in the net vs. a fish that has made a couple runs and jumps, if you keep its head below the water, even if you're going at its face with hookcutters or pliers?
That is exactly what I'm saying.
All fish are different and react in their own way and how tired they are isn't a factor in their behavior one way or another (my opinion). When they can see your hand(s) coming toward them some freak and some don't but their level of "green" doesn't seem to make a difference at all (my opinion).
Hurrying usually goes hand in hand with NOT being careful. I had one bite me a couple years ago and that fish was very played out (we were shooting photos of how to do a one man net job). Why did I get bit? Because I hurried to grab the fish, I didn't flip the fish over to grab it I just went for a gill lock. Since I was hurrying and not doing things right, I got nailed. The fish could see my hand approaching and she bit me, my fault, not the result of a green fish. Hurrying also usually means trying to overpower the fish when it wants to do something and that often results in some wicked gill rash… or worse.
Spinning/tangled fish are usually the result of the netman lifting the net and putting pressure on the fish.
Like Mike say's every fish is different. I try to net them as fast as possible. Since I got the 36' x 38' Stow Master net I have no problems, the bag is 4' long, so they can swim in it. The lures don't get stuck to the net and nine times out of ten the lure comes out while they are in the net. The small one 28" to 36" are the wild ones, and go nuts.
Steve
Mike, it sounds like you are gun-shy because of your bad experience with that one fish. I think what the other side is saying here is that the scenario you described is VERY rare with the big finsavers.
We get our fish in the net as quickly as possible because they really chill out once in the bag. Granted, this assumes that their head stays under water. I've heard a lot of theories about fish going ballistic in a net when their lateral line is touched, or when their tails are caught, or something else that can set them off. Of all the muskies we've netted, I have to say that this is bunk. As long as the head and gills stay submerged, a green fish behaves the same as an exhausted one in the net. Not true for pike though…and probably only half true for tigers!
Cyberlunge and I have been using a Frabill Kwik-Kradle for the last 7 years. It has great lateral support for the fish and is deep enough to allow you to keep the fish submerged while cutting/removing hooks. It doesn't however, even being a net/cradle hybrid, give you the oppotunity to quickly swoop in and net a fish. We can get the bag out and under the fish a lot faster than we were able using a standard cradle, but you still have to guide the fish in to it and that requires getting the fish under control. I tried to quickly land one of Cyber's fish in it cross ways using it as a net and the fish was able push off the hoop and rocket through the air. Cool to see, but dumd to do. After fishing with Will on LSC last year, we both decided that we were switching to a big kahuna type net, and this discussion just adds to urgency for me to pick one up in the next 6 weeks.
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