"swanezy" said:
So what did the spearers dislike from what mma guys have to say?
There really isn't as much of a divide as you would expect and I would suspect that's because the opinions in the room are not influenced by MDAA.
1. CIR all year: At first a section of the room said "no way" but once it was explained what this meant and that it was simply allowing CIR fishing from 11/30, 12/15 or 3/15 until the first Saturday in June I believe there was unanimous support.
2. Statewide harvest opening day of first Saturday in June: Unanimous support with consideration for a move in some areas to a later open date (last Saturday in June was discussed)
3. Mandatory harvest registration: There was some concern how it would be managed but after that discussion I don't think there was anyone that didn't support it.
4. 50” MSL not limited to broodstock lakes: Supported by everyone I believe, if there wasn't support it was not voiced during the meeting.
5. Specific MSL changes: Here's where it got the room a little riled up… Initially, I think everyone would have been OK with 46. When the discussion started that all the biological data says 50" it was followed by 45 minutes of passionate discussion from both sides. It remained civil though, except for a couple snarky remarks. What I would have loved to have seen is for them to clear the room of the MMA/muskie anglers and the spearers after the discussion. Leave only the people that were there about other stuff or the fisheries in general to have a further discussion and decide what to do about the Muskellunge MSL. Of course I say this because of the people I talked to sitting around me during the meeting that said things like – "it really should be 50" shouldn't it", "don't they understand the reason they only see one a year or one every couple years is because they're killing them", "why don't they understand" and lastly this one was said to the entire group by a person not interested in the muskie discussion "with everything that has been said and how few fish are being seen shouldn't the muskellunge fishery be closed to all harvest for a number of years".
Agree with Will's description, there was a general acceptance of 46". Everything else seemed to be acceptable to everyone also. Only one guy seemed to be trained in the ways of MDAA and made comments such as "there should be no MSL if we can only take 1/year" and "they spawn at 30"., etc.
I was sitting amidst the spearing crowd, and would occasionally show them data confirming what the DNR said. At one point I showed master angler records to a guy who didn't think they ever reached 50", and all he said was "Damn…"
Only other thing I noticed is that a majority of the spearing crowd had their own side bar, and were discussing an option to increase the MSL to 50" over a period of years with a 2" increase every year or two. It was really a sign of their admission that a 50" MSL is necessary, they just don't want to give up a potential harvest for the few years it would take to get more 50's swimming in there…
I agree with you guys. Will, you even mentioned to me that if the spearers were removed from the meeting and the decisions were made by the non-Muskie people then this would be a no-brainer. I will say that the spearer that stuck around afterwards was rational and I truly believe he wants what's best for the fishery. I'm not saying he'd be happy with a 50" MSL right away, but he at least seemed willing to hear the reasons behind it. One thing that gets talked about a lot in these discussions is the "social aspect" of regulatory decisions. We heard several times last night that many didn't spear a fish or haven't seen a fish in years. I think 2 were speared this year from the group that was there. I asked the younger spearer afterwards, "if you're not really seeing or spearing big muskies, what would possibly be taken away from you if stricter regulations were implemented?", and he said "nothing would be taken away." Then what is difficult about trying to manage the "social aspect"? He did say there were a few spearers that had taken multiple fish and that he had no problem reporting violators if he knows of an issue and has the RAP # in his cell. I made the comment that if a few guys get busted and fined then that should send a message throughout the area, but he disagreed and said that some guys will still do whatever they like and a fine wouldn't matter because most have money. I was surprised to hear that since I would assume a hefty fine would make most people think twice about breaking the law again. I think their is just an inherent distrust of government or any government organization and some guys just think people are out to take away everything from them. It was great to hear the local open water Muskie angler in the back get passionate about his love of Muskie fishing and his own fishing reports that clearly show something needs to change up there to help the muskies. I actually thought the most lively conversation of the night were the two older guys up front after the meeting that seemed like they were about to throw down. One of the guys was ranting and raving about Native Americans "taking all the fish and not paying for licenses" and the other guy was trying to educate him on treaties and their right to harvest fish. Just to mix things up and try to get my ass kicked, at the next DNR meeting I attend I'm going to ask the DNR if they would stop stocking salmon and only stock lake trout, and I am also going to read a dissertation on my love of coaster brook trout. I'm starting a club called Salvelinus Fontinalis Forever if any of you would like to join.
Rob, I am in for SFF! Our first meeting can be at the Munising meeting. We can address the lack of access, and illegal restriction of fishing to the lower Salmon Trout River by the Huron Mountain Club, and their paid county sheriff's deputies. Maybe even go further west and suggest that 10 fish a day is ridiculous, it should be 1 fish per day with an MSL of 15". Morons complain about not being able to feed a family on five 7" trout, and never thought of keeping a couple bigger ones! Might as well go dip smelt…
I sent this to Dave Borgeson and his biologists this morning, copied to Chief Dexter.
Thank you for facilitating the meeting last night, I understand it was challenging at times and you did a great job managing the discussion. It was certainly passionate from both sides surrounding the muskellunge MSL and management. Though it may have seemed to some, on each side, there was a significant divide between opinions that wasn't my take at all. The conversation during and after the meeting left me feeling that we're on the right track and the support will be there eventually, from all user groups, to get the right protection level in place on the inland waterway. In my opinion, there was more accomplished last night between the spearing and angler groups than I've seen in the last 18 years. I know you all saw the conversation(s) after the meeting that spilled out into the parking lot and I'm hopeful that was the start of a real partnership between the spear/angler groups. On the ride home I was already in contact with Jesse Hyde (Archambo) and I believe we can make good things happen in your management unit, , if we can keep MDAA out of the discussions. Jesse was VERY clear that MDAA, and MIke Holmes, do not represent or speak for the spearing community in that area.
To circle all of this back to the MUS management plan, this meeting went a long way toward action item:
Facilitate communication between interest groups with various values for Muskellunge fisheries in Michigan (e.g., spearing interest versus no-kill proponents; Goal IV – Communicate with anglers).
Again, great job and thank you!
I'm not sure how many of you know the name Archambo but the reason I included it after Jesse's name in that message was for the benefit of the chief. The local biologists know Jesse. The chief probably doesn't know him but he certainly knows his mother and stepfather, what they've done in the area and their outstanding partnership with the MI-DNR. If you don't recognize the name check this link – <url url="[Permission to view this media is denied]
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Jesse and I agreed that we would keep in touch and already have been. He might deny it if you made it public but he was in favor of the 50" MSL and he thinks we can get done what needs to be accomplished. His influence and respect in the spearing community was obvious at the meeting. Best of all was his distaste for Mike Holmes.
One last note.. After the meeting in Indian River other, than one of the older non-muskie guys it was only MMA members and one of the local muskie guys that helped fold/stack the chairs that needed to be put away. The previous night at Wolf Lake I was there early as they were setting up and made sure to help Martha set up the table, get coffee out, etc. Keep in mind at these meetings that sometimes it's the little things that leave a lasting impression.
"Will Schultz" said:
One last note.. After the meeting in Indian River other, than one of the older non-muskie guys it was only MMA members and one of the local muskie guys that helped fold/stack the chairs that needed to be put away. The previous night at Wolf Lake I was there early as they were setting up and made sure to help Martha set up the table, get coffee out, etc. Keep in mind at these meetings that sometimes it's the little things that leave a lasting impression.
I had a feeling that's why you did that.
"Will Schultz" said:
One last note.. After the meeting in Indian River other, than one of the older non-muskie guys it was only MMA members and one of the local muskie guys that helped fold/stack the chairs that needed to be put away. The previous night at Wolf Lake I was there early as they were setting up and made sure to help Martha set up the table, get coffee out, etc. Keep in mind at these meetings that sometimes it's the little things that leave a lasting impression.
One thing to add to this – It's amazing how far a simple 'thank you' can go so please thank the DNR members for putting on the presentation and taking the time to do these meetings.
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