Terminal Tackle

This forum will allow for articles, questions and answers on the best practices for releasing muskellunge.
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Will Schultz
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Postby Will Schultz » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:55 pm

jasonvkop wrote:The only time I probably need to switch leaders is after fishing a weagle for a decent amount of time because the front hook seems to catch the wire leader a good amount. I can feel the the leader weakening from constantly being bent and straightened. Anyone have this problem too? I 'T' my hooks on weagles so maybe that is the problem.


No and I have my hooks T'd as well.
A couple questions for you...
Really a Weagle or is it another brand that you're just calling a Weagle?
When is the front hook hanging up (cast or retrieve)?
What type of leader to lure connection are you using (snap or splitring)?

My initial guess, without knowing the above, is it that you are overworking the bait since what you describe happens on all types of gliders when they are overworked (surface and sub-surface).
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jasonvkop
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Postby jasonvkop » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:47 pm

Will Schultz wrote:No and I have my hooks T'd as well.
A couple questions for you...
Really a Weagle or is it another brand that you're just calling a Weagle?
When is the front hook hanging up (cast or retrieve)?
What type of leader to lure connection are you using (snap or splitring)?

My initial guess, without knowing the above, is it that you are overworking the bait since what you describe happens on all types of gliders when they are overworked (surface and sub-surface).

- I have had it happen with both the satisfier and the weagle
- It happens on the retrieve
- I am using a splitring connection

When the bait goes off to the side the hook swings up and catches the leader about an inch up from the lure/leader connection.
The Musky Bandit strikes again!

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Will Schultz
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Postby Will Schultz » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:44 pm

Sounds like you're hitting it hard and then feeding it too much slack line. The leader is getting run over by the lure causing the tangled hook, a little less slack should resolve the problem. A different rod might also resolve the problem, I'm always amazed how a slight change in rod action can completely change how a bait behaves.
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jasonvkop
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Postby jasonvkop » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:09 am

Will Schultz wrote:Sounds like you're hitting it hard and then feeding it too much slack line. The leader is getting run over by the lure causing the tangled hook, a little less slack should resolve the problem. A different rod might also resolve the problem, I'm always amazed how a slight change in rod action can completely change how a bait behaves.

I'll have to try that then. I use a XH rod for weagles, should I try a softer action?
The Musky Bandit strikes again!

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Will Schultz
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Postby Will Schultz » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:45 am

jasonvkop wrote:
Will Schultz wrote:Sounds like you're hitting it hard and then feeding it too much slack line. The leader is getting run over by the lure causing the tangled hook, a little less slack should resolve the problem. A different rod might also resolve the problem, I'm always amazed how a slight change in rod action can completely change how a bait behaves.

I'll have to try that then. I use a XH rod for weagles, should I try a softer action?


Can't really answer that because one XH to the next isn't the same since there's no industry stardard. For instance I've got an 8'6" XH that is perfect but an 8' MH that is also perfect, they have nearly identical action (moderate) and power is nearly the same but completely different manufacturer ratings. Most gliders will behave better with a little softer tip because the rod eats up some of the slack created but on the other hand a tip that is too soft wont give the power needed to make it work.
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edalz
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Postby edalz » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:34 am

jasonvkop wrote:
Will Schultz wrote:Sounds like you're hitting it hard and then feeding it too much slack line. The leader is getting run over by the lure causing the tangled hook, a little less slack should resolve the problem. A different rod might also resolve the problem, I'm always amazed how a slight change in rod action can completely change how a bait behaves.

I'll have to try that then. I use a XH rod for weagles, should I try a softer action?


I hate writing down how weird I am but try this:

I went to my buddy's pool and set two stationary targets about 2' from each other and threw a Hellhound with some different rods of varying length and action. The affect was surprising on how far the bait would go left and right and the different actions. No current in the pool but it did give me an idea of what rod worked best for me and how I like to fish the Hellhound. You could try this in a local pond and I would try to stay consistent with the leader length and type. I use the Stealth jerkbait leaders with no swivels. I only had one follow.....
"I wish ignorance was painful".

St Clair Hound
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Postby St Clair Hound » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:57 pm

Thats why I use 100# Mono. I have never had a problem.
Lead, follow or get out of the way,
The Big Hound is comin through!

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hemichemi
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Postby hemichemi » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:10 pm

St Clair Hound wrote:Thats why I use 100# Mono. I have never had a problem.
Jim said that WAS 100# fluorocarbon that shredded on him.

What Jim said about not using fluoro for baits that are often inhaled makes sense. Having said that, and knowing just a very little about polymers, I can say that I expect not all fluorocarbon leader material is created equally. Different fluorocarbon compositions, polymer molecular weights and MW dispersions, amount of cross-linking, extrusion methods, and manufacturing conditions can all affect the crystallinity, tensile strength, brittleness, compliance, etc, etc., etc. Having a tensile strength rating of 100# says nothing about how easily it can cleave when nicked or bitten. As a result, some brands are likely to be much better than others in this respect.

YMMV!
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Will Schultz
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Postby Will Schultz » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:39 pm

hemichemi wrote:
St Clair Hound wrote:Thats why I use 100# Mono. I have never had a problem.
Jim said that WAS 100# fluorocarbon that shredded on him...

As a result, some brands are likely to be much better than others in this respect.


Yes and unless it is specifically hard mono, flouro is usually much more abrasion resistant which is why they only use flouro or hard mono in salt water. Mono also has a couple real problems:
- it soaks up water which will make it weaker then it dries and cracks making it even weaker
- it degrades when exposed to UV

Flouro doesn't have either of the above mentioned problems making it superior to mono. The real drawback is that neither are toothproof but will take a lot of abuse if used in the correct size. For muskies that means at least 130# but with the advancements of flouro in the last five years the 150# that is out on the market is thinner than the 130# made just five years ago.
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Pete
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Postby Pete » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:40 pm

I don't trust any polymer leader anymore (mono or fluoro). Even on a brand spanking new one, it can fail on a single fish...more common with BIG fish.

Shoot Ron Berry a pm, get some of his wire leaders...no more worries.

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Jim tenHaaf
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Postby Jim tenHaaf » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:19 pm

What about for trolling, then? I've learned my lesson with casting 100# flouro, but I've heard plenty of times that guys will still use 80# or 100# 4' long flouro leaders for trolling. Do crankbaits being trolled have less likeliness of getting inhaled?

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Pete
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Postby Pete » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:11 pm

Jim tenHaaf wrote:What about for trolling, then? ... Do crankbaits being trolled have less likeliness of getting inhaled?


MUCH less likely when trolling...like close to zero I think. I still use wire for everything, but I troll less than 5% of the time.

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Postby St Clair Hound » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:30 pm

hemichemi wrote:
St Clair Hound wrote:Thats why I use 100# Mono. I have never had a problem.
Jim said that WAS 100# fluorocarbon that shredded on him.

What Jim said about not using fluoro for baits that are often inhaled makes sense. Having said that, and knowing just a very little about polymers, I can say that I expect not all fluorocarbon leader material is created equally. Different fluorocarbon compositions, polymer molecular weights and MW dispersions, amount of cross-linking, extrusion methods, and manufacturing conditions can all affect the crystallinity, tensile strength, brittleness, compliance, etc, etc., etc. Having a tensile strength rating of 100# says nothing about how easily it can cleave when nicked or bitten. As a result, some brands are likely to be much better than others in this respect.

YMMV!



You are absolutely right!. However, I make my own leaders and check them on a regular basis. I have used wire in the past but find I will get a better action on the bait with mono. Always make sure I have plenty of leaders on board . I don't hesitate to change them up . Cheaper than fluro.I have not had a leader failure in the last 8 yrs.
Lead, follow or get out of the way,

The Big Hound is comin through!

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Postby muskaholic » Fri May 27, 2011 8:55 pm

maybe its just me but a leader is a wear item, even if i havent caught a fish, I still check my leaders constantantly, While fishing eagle lake last october, I went through 3-4 leaders every day, just from getting beat up on the rocks and retied the same leader several times. when fishing rocks keep a close eye on your line especialy the first 10 feet, is a few $ worth the fish of a lifetime......save the hardware and tie a few new ones while having a beer at the dock. a leader is way easier to replace than that 50 incher or $50 bait, I have atleast a dozen on the boat at all times.
always practice C.P.R.